[lit-ideas] Re: Feral Dogs at the River

JL,

I don't think they would present an individual his dog's genome exhaustively. I 
suspect they would take shortcuts.  If the lady wanted to know which breeds 
were in her dogs background, the scientists would look for breed markers and 
give her the minimum she asked for.  

We went back to the river again today and those dogs were at the same spot.  
Again, the Boxer left in a hurry, but this time, after visiting for a bit with 
Ginger, the mixed breed dog hurried after the Boxer.  Yesterday they went up 
river.  Today they went down river.  

I examined the carcass.  It wasn't a dog.  It looked to me like a small 
wolverine, but I don't think wolverines appear this far south.  Lake Tahoe is 
the closest sighting, and that is a long way off.  I want to make it a raccoon, 
but it didn't look like a raccoon to me.  It wasn't a badger and it wasn't a 
coyote or anything canine; so I'm not sure what it was.

So they weren't hanging around to protect their little canine buddy.  I suppose 
it is theoretically possible that they were hanging around to protect some 
other pet animal, something I'm not familiar with, but something turned the 
carcass over and gnawed a bit at its insides.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:00 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Feral Dogs at the River

In a message dated 2/26/2009 12:46:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Actually, there is a way to �know� that a  dog is �pure bred.� 

---- I'm glad you use the scare quotes -- on 'know'  I mean -- Today I am 
feeling 'sceptic'. I was reading N. Allott's PhD (UCL,  2008) on Grice and the 
term fashionable today is 'agnostic' ("Grice  was agnostic that we could 
achieve 
any results there" -- ah well --  call me a classicist). 
 
Helm:

"Various breeders and some owners are obtaining genetic  information about 
their dogs nowadays.  Quite a lot is known about the  canine genome.  One of 
the 
reasons for seeking this information is to check  on, and either avoid or 
prevent the passing on of genetic disease.  But I  recall reference to one lady 
(on a Cesar Milan program) obtaining genetic  information of a mixed breed dog 
that had in its adulthood become  aggressive.  One of the mixes was Akita, 
which wasn�t evident by looking at  the dog.  I don�t recall the �markers� that 
distinguish the various breeds  but presumably the experts who are making 
money doing DNA tests for dog fanciers  do."
 
I see. I always wondered. I mean, it's fascinating. The _paper_ stuff is  the 
old method, but it's good. I mean, there is a lot of 'trust' going on there,  
but then what's life without trust. As I understand things, you have to be 
able  to trace the blood of the dog to the original first dog of that breed. 
Since of  course, breeds can be traced chronologically, and there is a specific 
_date_  when they become established and recognised.
 
----
 
Helm:
 
"And no, I have no proof that the dog I saw at a distance was a purebred  
Boxer, but if it were mixed-breed, why would someone go to the trouble of  
docking the tail?"
 
Did you say that in the original story?
 
Oops. You did. Just checked -- and how would you _not_ say so!! Excuse my  
ignorance:
 
   "From its docked tail and appearance I 
    assumed it to be pure bred."
 
I learned 'dock' from other sources -- just joking. 
 
1778 JOHNSON 3 Apr. in Boswell, 
 
"His tail then must be docked. That was the mark of Alcibiades's  dog."
 
1802 BINGLEY Anim. Biog. (1813) I. 494 
 
"The barbarous custom of docking the tails..is in this country very  
prevalent."
 
1876 A. CARY Country Life 189 
 
"I'm a going to..learn to nick and dock."
 
Thanks for not patronising me abaht that!

Helm: 
 
"This is a normal procedure for several breeds and they do it when the pup  
is young; so while it is possible, I would be surprised if this dog I saw wasn�
t  pure-bred; which doesn�t say a huge amount.  �Back yard breeders� produce  
pure-bred dogs.
 
---- Exactly. I like your guardedness now. I just missed or never  understood 
the 'docked' tail bit, so _obviously_ I'd say it's a purebred (even  backyard 
one). It would be _silly_ to dock it if he or she wasn't. Do you make  
assumptions about sex --. Should recheck!
 
Helm:

"And down at the river there aren�t any nearby houses to inquire  at.  North 
of the river 
is a finger from of the San Jacinto Mountains.  A couple of miles up  the 
river, 
to the North is the Soboba Indian Reservation."
 
Preservation, I call it. :)
 
-----
 
Helm:

"South of the River are various enterprises: something that has squared off  
large areas for water.  I recall hearing this is some sort of �reclamation  
project.�  At one time I saw a worker with a couple of dogs, but usually no  
one 
is there.  At another place is a huge nursery enterprise.  People  who are 
probably migrant farm workers from Mexico or further south work on  it.  None 
of 
them that I have seen has a dog.   East of the  nursery a mile or so is an 
old property where the owner has a couple of dogs,  and years ago these dogs 
barked at us from a distance, but he kept his dogs at  his property."
 
Yes -- this _is_ mysterious. Let us know if you come across the Boxer on  
another occasion. I mean, that's going to be likely -- if he's nearby around.  
For where could he _go_?
 
Helm:   

"The nearest housing community is perhaps a mile south of the  river.  It is 
a gated upscale trailer park for retired people.   Typically such people are 
allowed only small dogs weighing 35 pounds or  less."
 
Exactly, boxer narrows down things.
 
Helm: 
 
"Beyond that is a tract of houses, and while there is nothing to prevent a  
dog from making its way from that community north to the River, I can�t imagine 
 what its incentive would be." ... "In the past I have seen evidence that 
people  who decide to abandon their dogs, sometimes do that at the river.  Our  
local animal shelter will destroy an animal in a week or two if it looks as  
though it can�t be placed and there is no evidence that anyone is looking for  
it.   People who leave animals at the river may be assuaging their  consciences 
with the hope that someone came down and rescued them, or that they  learned 
to live happily with a pack of feral dogs.  Others find a likely  looking 
neighborhood and abandon their dogs there."
 
That's also with humans. Saw "Curious Case of Benjamin Button" -- and he  was 
pretty feral-looking. ('feral' meaning 'deadly', almost). What a silly short  
story in parts, by Scott Fitzgerald. I suppose the actual written text is 
better  than the silly imagery around it. I like Scott Fizgerald. I like all 
the  
places he's been too, geographically. 
 
"We have four such dogs since we�ve lived in San Jacinto.  We didn�t  keep 
any of them, but we did find homes for them.  It is difficult, but  possible.  
I suspect though that had the old dog I referred to followed me  back to the 
Jeep, I would not have been able to find a home for it. As to my  ambivalence 
about the use of the term �feral,� as you can see from the above, I  cannot be 
sure how long a given dog has been at the river.  The dogs I saw  may have 
been there only a short time.  My girls and I have been going to  the river 
quite a lot recently and have never seen those two dogs before."
 
_Very_ strange.
 
"This could mean that they came west from the Indian Reservation, or it  
could mean that they came East or North from mountainous regions, but it could  
mean that they were recently abandoned there."
 
Exactly. 

"I have seen dogs down there running in packs who were as skittish of  us as 
a pack of coyotes, but the dogs we saw yesterday, especially the older  one, 
didn�t behave in that way."
 
Okay, I'll have to do 'skit' -- as in 'play a little double-act comedic  turn?
 
[Of obscure origin: perh. f. a Scand. base *skyt- (see SKIT v.2) + -ISH.]  
Of horses, ETC.: Disposed or apt to start or be unruly without sufficient  
cause; given to shying or restiveness through high spirits or playfulness;  
unduly lively or spirited. 
quote:

1837 HOOD Ode to R. Wilson 241 
 
"Exactly as a skittish Scottish bull 
Hunts an old woman in a scarlet cloak."

Helm:

"I most often use the term �feral� to refer to dogs we see down there, but  
I don�t know how feral anymore than I know how purebred."
 
and right you are in being, if not sceptic, guarded.
 
Cheers,
 
JL
 

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