[lit-ideas] Re: European civil war

>>>
*Yes, but there was a case of a teacher sued because
she told a Muslim student to take off the headscarf on
the grounds that it was not part of the school
uniform.
>>>

I should have mentioned that case. I didn't see the Independent's story (and
can'r access it now); the account I saw said the school does allow certain
forms of Muslim dress, this happened not to be one.

But I wasn't saying it doesn't happen here -- yes a school could ban
headscarves if it wanted to -- just that the general situation is different.
(What I really wanted to do was explain French policy to people here.)

>*I don't know about this being a specifically Muslim
>custom.

It isn't -- sorry -- that was my point. You'd think a devout young Muslim
woman who wears a scarf couldn't hang around chatting to young male doctors
and kicking her shoes off in the heat, but in fact of course she will..

>*FGM is emphatically NOT an Islamic practice

I know -- my apologies -- I used that as a counter to my comments about this
country's tendency to be less "assimilationist" than France (fyi when I say
that I have in mind French and British colonial policies).

>>>
*I am not familiar with the specifics of this case,
but in general I do not think that hate speech should
be held a punishable offence, among other reasons
because the concept is extremely open to different
interpretations. (It is different with incitement to
violence, which lends itself to more precise
definitions.)
>>>

It was (public) incitement to violence, and the case could have been brought
under the Public Order Act instead of the Race Relations Act -- come to
think ot it, perhaps it was.

Judy Evans
jaye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
Sent: 31 March 2004 08:44
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: European civil war


--- Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> French and British policy have always been very
> different, France has tended
> more towards assimilationism (NB I'm not suggesting
> one is better than the
> other). But also the school policy is a general
> secular policy that, for
> historical reasons, bars any form of religious
> dress. The UK (e.g.) lacks
> such a policy.

*Yes, but there was a case of a teacher sued because
she told a Muslim student to take off the headscarf on
the grounds that it was not part of the school
uniform. There were other allegations made against the
teacher, such as that she scratched the student's
neck, of which she was later cleared:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/story.jsp?story=485129

But it does seem that at least some schools have a
policy of banning headscarves. (Could the headscarf
with the school uniform not be tolerated ?)

> I don't know what happens in French hospitals; in
> ours, young women doctors
> who are Muslim wear black headscarves tied back and
> -- in the summer heat --
> open-toed clogs which they kick off to show (*gasp*)
> bare feet.

*I don't know about this being a specifically Muslim
custom. I have never seen it among the Muslims in
Bosnia. On the other hand, in some parts of China it
seems to be quite common to take the shoes and other
footwear off during the summer heat.

> Otoh this country bans female genital mutilation and
> is looking for ways to
> enforce that ban more strongly, and if people who
> believe in FGM don't like
> that, *tough*.

*FGM is emphatically NOT an Islamic practice - it is
not ordained in the Kuran, or in the Sunnah of the
Prophet, or in any Islamic texts that I am aware of.
It is a practice of tribal patriarchal societies,
today found mostly in Africa, and among Christians,
Animists and Jews there as well as Muslims. It is
tough that, for example, the Moller Okin essay on
multiculturalism does not make this clear.

 Also a Muslim priest is in gaol here
> for race hate speech
> against Jews.

*I am not familiar with the specifics of this case,
but in general I do not think that hate speech should
be held a punishable offence, among other reasons
because the concept is extremely open to different
interpretations. (It is different with incitement to
violence, which lends itself to more precise
definitions.)

O.K.

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