[lit-ideas] Re: Disbelief

  • From: Harold Hungerford <hh@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:23:28 -0800

Well, somebody's off base. See this web page, where Flew insists he's =20=

still an atheist:

<http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/=20
137.html>

Harold Hungerford

Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously =20=

between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and =20=

those who want us to obey and be humble and submit.
                                        -- Philip Pullman


On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Lawrence Helm wrote:

> The Habermas interview with Flew at HYPERLINK
> "http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/"http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/ -- =20=

> very
> interesting.
>
>
> In the December issue of The Christian Century is an article entitled,
> =93Americans=92 belief in God is high but nuanced, study says.=94  In =
it is =20
> poll
> by Darren Sherkat, Southern Illinois University; General Social =20
> Surveys,
> National Opinion Research Center:
>
>
>
> U.S. Belief in God:
>
>
>
> True Believer           64.4%
>
> Doubt Sometimes         16.6%
>
> Higher Power            8.4%
>
> Ambivalent              4.1%
>
> Agnostic                4.0%
>
> Atheist                 2.5%
>
>
>
> The article goes on to give some detailed information:  =93While only =
53
> percent of Liberal Protestants (including Presbyterians and United =20
> Church of
> Christ members) and 56 percent of Episcopalians have unwavering faith =20=

> that
> God exists, fully 81 percent of Baptists and 85 percent of Mormons =20
> have no
> doubt about God.
>
>
>
> =93Some 65 percent of the =91moderate=92 Protestants (Methodists, =
Disciples =20
> of
> Christ, Brethren and Reformed) as well as Lutherans and Catholics are
> certain in their belief.  Those church groupings =96 plus the liberal
> Protestants and Episcopalians =96 all had between 19 and 23 percent =
who =20
> agreed
> with the statement, =91While I have doubts, I feel that I do believe =
in =20
> God.=92
>
>
>
> =93Only 27 percent of Jews believe firmly that God exists, while 21 =20=

> percent
> picked belief-with-doubt and 22 percent agnostic.  Sixteen percent
> identified with the =91higher power=92 concept.=94
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I=92d be interested in seeing a correlation between this poll and =20
> political
> inclination.  Are Republicans and Conservatives mostly =93True =20
> Believers=94?
> Are Leftists mostly =93Atheists=94?  Where do Liberals fall?
>
>
>
> A question I=92ve puzzled over is whether there is a correlation =
between =20
> lack
> of faith in God and a need to come up with a solution that depends =20
> upon a
> particular social solution for mankind=92s physical welfare.  Marx is =
the
> classic example of this.  Religion is the opiate of the masses; so man =
=20
> must
> go ahead and figure things out and produce a paradise here on earth =20=

> because
> there is no afterlife.  On the other hand, the Christian =
Postmillennial
> position anticipates that God will eventually cause Christianity to
> predominate throughout the entire world.  Postmillennialism and =
Francis
> Fukuyama=92s Hegelianism are not, it seems to me, in conflict.  Thus, =
a
> certain aspect of Christianity would wonder if the spread of
> Liberal-Democracy were God=92s work =96 comparable to the Roman Empire =
and =20
> Koine
> Greek being the right situation for the spread of first-century
> Christianity.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, Marcel Gauchet in his The Disenchantment of the =20
> World, A
> Political History of Religion, can see Liberal-Democracy growing out =20=

> of and
> replacing Christianity.  Perhaps Fukuyama would agree with Gauchet.
> American Christian Postmillennialists would see the spread of
> Liberal-Democracy as compatible with the spread of Christianity.  =20
> Perhaps
> the European model would look more like Gauchet=92s conception.
>
>
>
> Lawrence Helm
>
> San Jacinto
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =20
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Paul Stone
> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:27 PM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Disbelief
>
>
>
> At 11:36 AM 12/12/2004, you wrote:
>
>> A timely essay especially for the various levels of non-believers =20
>> among
>
>> us. It raises a number of important issues, not the least of which is
>
>> "organized"  religion itself...
>
>>
>
>> TC,
>
>>
>
>> /Steve Cameron, NJ
>
>
>
> On the other hand, the first sign of the apocalypse has come in the
>
> [apparent] turning of Antony Flew into a 'theist'. UGH!!!
>
>
>
> http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/
>
>
>
>
>
> losing all hope,
>
>
>
> paul
>
>
>
> ******************
>
> Paul Stone
>
> pas@xxxxxxxx
>
> Leamington, ON
>
> ******************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --=20
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