The retry worked for me. The reason for the =20 appears to be that I was using rich text instead of plain text in my original message. hh On Dec 13, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Harold Hungerford wrote: > I'll try again. The culprit is the =20 in the URL. > > Try > >> <http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/ >> 137.html> > > > Harold Hungerford > On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:23 PM, Harold Hungerford wrote: > >> Well, somebody's off base. See this web page, where Flew insists he's >> =20= >> >> still an atheist: >> >> <http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/ >> =20 >> 137.html> >> >> Harold Hungerford >> >> Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over >> ferociously =20= >> >> between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and >> =20= >> >> those who want us to obey and be humble and submit. >> -- Philip Pullman >> >> >> On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Lawrence Helm wrote: >> >>> The Habermas interview with Flew at HYPERLINK >>> "http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/"http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/ -- >>> =20= >> >>> very >>> interesting. >>> >>> >>> In the December issue of The Christian Century is an article >>> entitled, >>> =93Americans=92 belief in God is high but nuanced, study says.=94 In >>> = >> it is =20 >>> poll >>> by Darren Sherkat, Southern Illinois University; General Social =20 >>> Surveys, >>> National Opinion Research Center: >>> >>> >>> >>> U.S. Belief in God: >>> >>> >>> >>> True Believer 64.4% >>> >>> Doubt Sometimes 16.6% >>> >>> Higher Power 8.4% >>> >>> Ambivalent 4.1% >>> >>> Agnostic 4.0% >>> >>> Atheist 2.5% >>> >>> >>> >>> The article goes on to give some detailed information: =93While only >>> = >> 53 >>> percent of Liberal Protestants (including Presbyterians and United >>> =20 >>> Church of >>> Christ members) and 56 percent of Episcopalians have unwavering faith >>> =20= >> >>> that >>> God exists, fully 81 percent of Baptists and 85 percent of Mormons >>> =20 >>> have no >>> doubt about God. >>> >>> >>> >>> =93Some 65 percent of the =91moderate=92 Protestants (Methodists, = >> Disciples =20 >>> of >>> Christ, Brethren and Reformed) as well as Lutherans and Catholics are >>> certain in their belief. Those church groupings =96 plus the liberal >>> Protestants and Episcopalians =96 all had between 19 and 23 percent = >> who =20 >>> agreed >>> with the statement, =91While I have doubts, I feel that I do believe >>> = >> in =20 >>> God.=92 >>> >>> >>> >>> =93Only 27 percent of Jews believe firmly that God exists, while 21 >>> =20= >> >>> percent >>> picked belief-with-doubt and 22 percent agnostic. Sixteen percent >>> identified with the =91higher power=92 concept.=94 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I=92d be interested in seeing a correlation between this poll and =20 >>> political >>> inclination. Are Republicans and Conservatives mostly =93True =20 >>> Believers=94? >>> Are Leftists mostly =93Atheists=94? Where do Liberals fall? >>> >>> >>> >>> A question I=92ve puzzled over is whether there is a correlation = >> between =20 >>> lack >>> of faith in God and a need to come up with a solution that depends >>> =20 >>> upon a >>> particular social solution for mankind=92s physical welfare. Marx is >>> = >> the >>> classic example of this. Religion is the opiate of the masses; so >>> man = >> =20 >>> must >>> go ahead and figure things out and produce a paradise here on earth >>> =20= >> >>> because >>> there is no afterlife. On the other hand, the Christian = >> Postmillennial >>> position anticipates that God will eventually cause Christianity to >>> predominate throughout the entire world. Postmillennialism and = >> Francis >>> Fukuyama=92s Hegelianism are not, it seems to me, in conflict. Thus, >>> = >> a >>> certain aspect of Christianity would wonder if the spread of >>> Liberal-Democracy were God=92s work =96 comparable to the Roman >>> Empire = >> and =20 >>> Koine >>> Greek being the right situation for the spread of first-century >>> Christianity. >>> >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, Marcel Gauchet in his The Disenchantment of the >>> =20 >>> World, A >>> Political History of Religion, can see Liberal-Democracy growing out >>> =20= >> >>> of and >>> replacing Christianity. Perhaps Fukuyama would agree with Gauchet. >>> American Christian Postmillennialists would see the spread of >>> Liberal-Democracy as compatible with the spread of Christianity. =20 >>> Perhaps >>> the European model would look more like Gauchet=92s conception. >>> >>> >>> >>> Lawrence Helm >>> >>> San Jacinto >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =20 >>> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>> On Behalf Of Paul Stone >>> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:27 PM >>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Disbelief >>> >>> >>> >>> At 11:36 AM 12/12/2004, you wrote: >>> >>>> A timely essay especially for the various levels of non-believers >>>> =20 >>>> among >>> >>>> us. It raises a number of important issues, not the least of which >>>> is >>> >>>> "organized" religion itself... >>> >>>> >>> >>>> TC, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> /Steve Cameron, NJ >>> >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, the first sign of the apocalypse has come in the >>> >>> [apparent] turning of Antony Flew into a 'theist'. UGH!!! >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> losing all hope, >>> >>> >>> >>> paul >>> >>> >>> >>> ****************** >>> >>> Paul Stone >>> >>> pas@xxxxxxxx >>> >>> Leamington, ON >>> >>> ****************** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.2 - Release Date: 12/13/2004 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, >>> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, >> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html