I'll try again. The culprit is the =20 in the URL. Try > <http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/ > 137.html> Harold Hungerford On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:23 PM, Harold Hungerford wrote: > Well, somebody's off base. See this web page, where Flew insists he's > =20= > > still an atheist: > > <http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/ > =20 > 137.html> > > Harold Hungerford > > Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over > ferociously =20= > > between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and > =20= > > those who want us to obey and be humble and submit. > -- Philip Pullman > > > On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Lawrence Helm wrote: > >> The Habermas interview with Flew at HYPERLINK >> "http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/"http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/ -- >> =20= > >> very >> interesting. >> >> >> In the December issue of The Christian Century is an article entitled, >> =93Americans=92 belief in God is high but nuanced, study says.=94 In >> = > it is =20 >> poll >> by Darren Sherkat, Southern Illinois University; General Social =20 >> Surveys, >> National Opinion Research Center: >> >> >> >> U.S. Belief in God: >> >> >> >> True Believer 64.4% >> >> Doubt Sometimes 16.6% >> >> Higher Power 8.4% >> >> Ambivalent 4.1% >> >> Agnostic 4.0% >> >> Atheist 2.5% >> >> >> >> The article goes on to give some detailed information: =93While only >> = > 53 >> percent of Liberal Protestants (including Presbyterians and United =20 >> Church of >> Christ members) and 56 percent of Episcopalians have unwavering faith >> =20= > >> that >> God exists, fully 81 percent of Baptists and 85 percent of Mormons =20 >> have no >> doubt about God. >> >> >> >> =93Some 65 percent of the =91moderate=92 Protestants (Methodists, = > Disciples =20 >> of >> Christ, Brethren and Reformed) as well as Lutherans and Catholics are >> certain in their belief. Those church groupings =96 plus the liberal >> Protestants and Episcopalians =96 all had between 19 and 23 percent = > who =20 >> agreed >> with the statement, =91While I have doubts, I feel that I do believe = > in =20 >> God.=92 >> >> >> >> =93Only 27 percent of Jews believe firmly that God exists, while 21 >> =20= > >> percent >> picked belief-with-doubt and 22 percent agnostic. Sixteen percent >> identified with the =91higher power=92 concept.=94 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I=92d be interested in seeing a correlation between this poll and =20 >> political >> inclination. Are Republicans and Conservatives mostly =93True =20 >> Believers=94? >> Are Leftists mostly =93Atheists=94? Where do Liberals fall? >> >> >> >> A question I=92ve puzzled over is whether there is a correlation = > between =20 >> lack >> of faith in God and a need to come up with a solution that depends =20 >> upon a >> particular social solution for mankind=92s physical welfare. Marx is >> = > the >> classic example of this. Religion is the opiate of the masses; so >> man = > =20 >> must >> go ahead and figure things out and produce a paradise here on earth >> =20= > >> because >> there is no afterlife. On the other hand, the Christian = > Postmillennial >> position anticipates that God will eventually cause Christianity to >> predominate throughout the entire world. Postmillennialism and = > Francis >> Fukuyama=92s Hegelianism are not, it seems to me, in conflict. Thus, >> = > a >> certain aspect of Christianity would wonder if the spread of >> Liberal-Democracy were God=92s work =96 comparable to the Roman >> Empire = > and =20 >> Koine >> Greek being the right situation for the spread of first-century >> Christianity. >> >> >> >> On the other hand, Marcel Gauchet in his The Disenchantment of the =20 >> World, A >> Political History of Religion, can see Liberal-Democracy growing out >> =20= > >> of and >> replacing Christianity. Perhaps Fukuyama would agree with Gauchet. >> American Christian Postmillennialists would see the spread of >> Liberal-Democracy as compatible with the spread of Christianity. =20 >> Perhaps >> the European model would look more like Gauchet=92s conception. >> >> >> >> Lawrence Helm >> >> San Jacinto >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =20 >> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Paul Stone >> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:27 PM >> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Disbelief >> >> >> >> At 11:36 AM 12/12/2004, you wrote: >> >>> A timely essay especially for the various levels of non-believers =20 >>> among >> >>> us. It raises a number of important issues, not the least of which is >> >>> "organized" religion itself... >> >>> >> >>> TC, >> >>> >> >>> /Steve Cameron, NJ >> >> >> >> On the other hand, the first sign of the apocalypse has come in the >> >> [apparent] turning of Antony Flew into a 'theist'. UGH!!! >> >> >> >> http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/ >> >> >> >> >> >> losing all hope, >> >> >> >> paul >> >> >> >> ****************** >> >> Paul Stone >> >> pas@xxxxxxxx >> >> Leamington, ON >> >> ****************** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --=20 >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.2 - Release Date: 12/13/2004 >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, >> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html