[lit-ideas] Re: Disbelief

  • From: Harold Hungerford <hh@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:31:57 -0800

I'll try again. The culprit is the =20 in the URL.

Try

> <http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/
> 137.html>


Harold Hungerford
On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:23 PM, Harold Hungerford wrote:

> Well, somebody's off base. See this web page, where Flew insists he's  
> =20=
>
> still an atheist:
>
> <http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/ 
> =20
> 137.html>
>
> Harold Hungerford
>
> Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over  
> ferociously =20=
>
> between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and  
> =20=
>
> those who want us to obey and be humble and submit.
>                                       -- Philip Pullman
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Lawrence Helm wrote:
>
>> The Habermas interview with Flew at HYPERLINK
>> "http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/"http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/ --  
>> =20=
>
>> very
>> interesting.
>>
>>
>> In the December issue of The Christian Century is an article entitled,
>> =93Americans=92 belief in God is high but nuanced, study says.=94  In  
>> =
> it is =20
>> poll
>> by Darren Sherkat, Southern Illinois University; General Social =20
>> Surveys,
>> National Opinion Research Center:
>>
>>
>>
>> U.S. Belief in God:
>>
>>
>>
>> True Believer           64.4%
>>
>> Doubt Sometimes         16.6%
>>
>> Higher Power            8.4%
>>
>> Ambivalent              4.1%
>>
>> Agnostic                4.0%
>>
>> Atheist                 2.5%
>>
>>
>>
>> The article goes on to give some detailed information:  =93While only  
>> =
> 53
>> percent of Liberal Protestants (including Presbyterians and United =20
>> Church of
>> Christ members) and 56 percent of Episcopalians have unwavering faith  
>> =20=
>
>> that
>> God exists, fully 81 percent of Baptists and 85 percent of Mormons =20
>> have no
>> doubt about God.
>>
>>
>>
>> =93Some 65 percent of the =91moderate=92 Protestants (Methodists, =
> Disciples =20
>> of
>> Christ, Brethren and Reformed) as well as Lutherans and Catholics are
>> certain in their belief.  Those church groupings =96 plus the liberal
>> Protestants and Episcopalians =96 all had between 19 and 23 percent =
> who =20
>> agreed
>> with the statement, =91While I have doubts, I feel that I do believe =
> in =20
>> God.=92
>>
>>
>>
>> =93Only 27 percent of Jews believe firmly that God exists, while 21  
>> =20=
>
>> percent
>> picked belief-with-doubt and 22 percent agnostic.  Sixteen percent
>> identified with the =91higher power=92 concept.=94
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I=92d be interested in seeing a correlation between this poll and =20
>> political
>> inclination.  Are Republicans and Conservatives mostly =93True =20
>> Believers=94?
>> Are Leftists mostly =93Atheists=94?  Where do Liberals fall?
>>
>>
>>
>> A question I=92ve puzzled over is whether there is a correlation =
> between =20
>> lack
>> of faith in God and a need to come up with a solution that depends =20
>> upon a
>> particular social solution for mankind=92s physical welfare.  Marx is  
>> =
> the
>> classic example of this.  Religion is the opiate of the masses; so  
>> man =
> =20
>> must
>> go ahead and figure things out and produce a paradise here on earth  
>> =20=
>
>> because
>> there is no afterlife.  On the other hand, the Christian =
> Postmillennial
>> position anticipates that God will eventually cause Christianity to
>> predominate throughout the entire world.  Postmillennialism and =
> Francis
>> Fukuyama=92s Hegelianism are not, it seems to me, in conflict.  Thus,  
>> =
> a
>> certain aspect of Christianity would wonder if the spread of
>> Liberal-Democracy were God=92s work =96 comparable to the Roman  
>> Empire =
> and =20
>> Koine
>> Greek being the right situation for the spread of first-century
>> Christianity.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, Marcel Gauchet in his The Disenchantment of the =20
>> World, A
>> Political History of Religion, can see Liberal-Democracy growing out  
>> =20=
>
>> of and
>> replacing Christianity.  Perhaps Fukuyama would agree with Gauchet.
>> American Christian Postmillennialists would see the spread of
>> Liberal-Democracy as compatible with the spread of Christianity.  =20
>> Perhaps
>> the European model would look more like Gauchet=92s conception.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lawrence Helm
>>
>> San Jacinto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =20
>> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Paul Stone
>> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:27 PM
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Disbelief
>>
>>
>>
>> At 11:36 AM 12/12/2004, you wrote:
>>
>>> A timely essay especially for the various levels of non-believers =20
>>> among
>>
>>> us. It raises a number of important issues, not the least of which is
>>
>>> "organized"  religion itself...
>>
>>>
>>
>>> TC,
>>
>>>
>>
>>> /Steve Cameron, NJ
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, the first sign of the apocalypse has come in the
>>
>> [apparent] turning of Antony Flew into a 'theist'. UGH!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> losing all hope,
>>
>>
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>
>> ******************
>>
>> Paul Stone
>>
>> pas@xxxxxxxx
>>
>> Leamington, ON
>>
>> ******************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --=20
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>>
>>
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