[lit-ideas] Re: Definition(s) of Virtue
- From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:47:32 +0000 (GMT)
Thank you, Robert. The account I found by Googling
was of the Greek concept, but not specifically about
Aristotle. My problem with arete's being a mean
stemmed from the (false) definition I found.
>>Virtue is the intermediate condition
>> between excess and
> >deficiency with respect to a person's feelings and
>> actions.
I think I still have a problem with this but can't
think it through at the moment!
Judy Evans, Cardiff
--- Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Judy wrote:
>
> > Robert, I thought arete was the fulfilment of
> one's
> > capabilities (I take that from Googling it
> yesterday,
> > also from discussions some while ago).
>
> This sounds a bit like Kant's inunction to maximize
> one's talents. A
> 'virtue' in Aristotle's sense is an 'excellence,' in
> a person, such that
> by having it she's a better person (although of
> course Aristotle would
> have used a different pronoun). It's what makes a
> thing good of kind; in
> order to know that, one has to know what a good
> thing of that kind would
> be. Nietzsche derided the Christian virtues
> (meekness, humility, etc.)
> because they seemed to diminish, rather than lead to
> human excellence.
>
> > Yes -- I'm finding it difficult to describe the
> > extremes between which arete lies unless it is,
> > simply, a mean between any (and all) extremes.
>
> http://www.interlog.com/~girbe/ethics2.html
>
> Translators: TI = Terrence Irwin; DR = David Ross;
> JT = J. A. T. Thompson
>
> [TI] Virtue is concerned with feelings and actions,
> in which excess and
> deficiency are in error and incur blame, while the
> intermediate
> condition is correct and wins praise, which are both
> proper features of
> virtue. Virtue, then, is a mean, in so far as it
> aims at what is
> intermediate. Virtue is the intermediate condition
> between excess and
> deficiency with respect to a person's feelings and
> actions.
>
> [DR, TI] Excess and defect are characteristic of
> vice, and the mean of
> virtue; 'For men are good but in one way, but bad in
> many.' Virtue,
> then, is a state of character concerned with choice,
> lying in the mean
> which is defined by reference to reason. It is a
> mean between two vices,
> one of excess and one of deficiency; and again, it
> is a mean because the
> vices respectively fall short or exceed what is
> right in both passions
> and actions, while virtue both finds and chooses
> that which is
> intermediate. Hence, as far as its substance and the
> account stating its
> essence are concerned, virtue is a mean; but as far
> as the best
> condition and the good result are concerned, it is
> an extremity. A
> person with a virtuous character uses his reason to
> choose the mean
> between the vices of the extremes, i.e. excess and
> deficiency, in his
> desires and his actions. And although the practice
> of virtue calls for
> choosing the intermediate, the results so attained
> are by no means
> average but are exceptionally good.
>
> [JT] But not every action or feeling admits of a
> mean; because some have
> names that directly connote depravity, such as
> malice, shamelessness and
> envy, and among actions adultery, theft and murder.
> All these, and more
> like them, are so called as being evil in
> themselves; it is not the
> excess or deficiency of them that is evil. In their
> case, then, it is
> impossible to act rightly; one is always wrong.
>
> [An easy-to-follow summary appears in the right hand
> column from the
> translations.]
>
> I'm talking about 'Aristotelian' aretai, in response
> to Judy, not about
> Platonic aretai, or aretai in general, whatever that
> might mean.
>
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