[lit-ideas] Re: De Consolatione Philosophiae

JL replies to my transcendental claims regarding the nature of a discipline with
offerings of historical learning. As the latter bear no necessary relevance to
the justifiability of my claims - although they certainly are interesting to
peruse when one is not doing philosophy - I see no reason for replying, other
than to thank JL for sharing his historical erudition with us.

Walter O
MUN


Quoting Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx:

> Philosophy, The Liberal Arts, The Liberal Professions
>  
> In a message dated 6/27/2009 2:31:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
> wokshevs@xxxxxx writes:
> the discipline of philosophy is not itself  a
> service profession. It comes to be addressed as such when its resources,  
> forms
> of analysis, etc. are deployed by an applied field of learning, such  as
> education, medicine, law, nursing, engineering, journalism, escort  
> services,
> etc.. Not that there's anything WRONG in that.
> Being a  discipline rather than a field of learning, the "good" of 
> philosophy is
> not  to be measured by any changes or states of affairs in the world it may
> bring  about. The moral and epistemic worth of the "results" produced by  a
> discipline rest intrinsically within its pursuit as a practice of  
> scholarship.
> 
> ----
>  
> Mmm. Good.
> But in further need of elucidation.
> I myself don't like talk of 'discipline' at all. I think Buddhism is a  
> discipline. Hardly the recovery of a Gricean implicature
> In Ancient Greece, people had to be _warriors_. That was the only  
> discipline or profession acceptable. But some preferred to be, if you can 
> imagine 
> that, philosophers.
> In the Middle Ages, they added a second profession: 'monk'. Warrior, or  
> monk. Since some philosophers _were_ monks (Aquinas, etc), that was the birth
> 
> of  the "Renaissance Man" who was a sort of philosopher of sorts and not yet
> 
> a  warrior or a monk.
> In the 20th century -- for I don't do 21th century -- it bores me -- we  
> have to take into consideration G. E. M. Anscombe, and that complicates  
> things.
>  
> Liber meant 'puer' in Roman, i.e. a boy. Hence liberal arts. It's not the  
> arts that would set you free, but as their names indicate, 'grammar',  
> 'arithmetica': the puerile stuff pueri had to study to cease being  animals.
>  
> Philosophy was _never_ considered an 'ars liberalis'. Dialectica or logica  
> is _not_ philosophy. Philosophy, usually represented as a Virgin (Boethius, 
> De  Consolatione Philosophiae) was _beyond_ that.
> With the coming of Christ and the monks, a very servile attitude was  
> thought for the Philosophy: she became Ancilla Theologiae, if you can imagine
>  
> that: the nanny of Theology!
>  
> The liberal professions -- some are service professions --. Consider  
> 'lawyer'. (I'm never sure what they are).
>  
> So, this leaves us with not knowing where Philosophy should fit in.
> The relationship with other disciplines leaves me cold -- i.e. there's  
> nothing wrong with that, but nothing right either.
>  
> Incidentally, I'm presently considering Anne Coulter.
> 
> In a number of outings, she's been criticising Dr. Tiller -- and the  
> question arises: is there such a thing as moral guilt? It seems guilt is only
>  
> 'legal'. Coulter's point:
>  
> The abortionists were saying:
> "I don't want to see abortion as a murder;  it's termination before the 3rd 
> trimester"
> "I don't myself embrace abortion, but I don't want to impose my moral  
> values on others."
> "If you don't want to have an abortion don't have an abortion."
> 
> Cleverly using the same logic, by 'salva veritate' Coulter  proposes:
>  
> "I don't want to see the demise of Dr. Tiller as a murder: it's termination 
>  after the 203rd trimester".
> "I don't myself embrace abortionist-shooting, but I don't want to impose my 
>  moral values on others" (She was criticised for ignoring the distinction  
> legal/moral here).
> "If you don't want to shoot an abortionist, don't shoot an abortionist".  
> Ditto, as not prohibiting illegal actions.
>  
> --- So perhaps Geary can explain.
> And whether abortion is a liberal profession.
>  
> J. L. S.
>    
>  
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