Saturday, October 1, 2005, 4:18:36 AM, Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx wrote: Eac>> Since we are so disliked everywhere, in some respects <g>, Eac>> I often think that would be not so bad... JE> alternatively you could look -- as of course many in the US do -- at > why "you" are "so disliked everywhere, in some respects", if, that is, > that is indeed correct. > (You have probably not seen a full list of countries who offered aif > after Katrina. Or perhaps that does not count.) Eac> Well, isn't because we meddle so much? yes but I want to keep "you" and "so disliked" and "everywhere" in quotation marks, because it isn't as simple as that (*Bush* is certainly widely disliked even in the UK, but often no more than he is disliked by many in the US, and often, less so.) Eac> And, since Eac> apparently the 'powers that be' are not able to restrain Eac> themselves, hiding out until we can retrain them to behave Eac> seemed like it might make people in the rest of the world Eac> happier with us. You do need to get rid of that lot!! Eac> and, yes...there was a lot of support and, actually, I Eac> think it did an incredible amount of good in terms of those here Eac> who DO want the U.S. to regress back into a little world of Eac> their own. I hope so -- don't tell them the FDA impounded our aid and Germany's! :) Eac> (That was, of course, not the intent of those who gave, but Eac> it has happened. It's rather interesting...) Yes JE> I don't know who calls you saviours Eac> Oh, I think we call ourselves saviors. right -- so you know, it's "your" problem ! Eac> No doubt no one Eac> else does it is not though true that all the people outside the US want it to do nothing, many of us would like the US to do more Eac> --but many here in the U.S. do think that the U.S. Eac> 'gives' a lot to other countries to help and assist (not really Eac> paying attention to the thought that we are all in this world Eac> together... the many of whom you speak should be told what the figures actually are and what they mean: neither "the US" governmentally nor the US people give all that much, comparatively speaking. (In the case of the people, I'd say, it isn't a lack of generosity so much as the greater difficulty of organising appeals there: here the BBC will, now and then, give a whole evening to a telethon; all banks will take donations without charging fees; etc..) I omit the "giving" forced on US people by their government. I accept that US soldiers are being made to give their lives daily. But that isn't what the people you're talking about have in mind. Eac>> we'd Eac>> be focusing on our own problems and taking care of our own Eac>> people; JE> I certainly hope so. You could start by protesting against cuts in > Medicaid to pay for Katrina aid relief. Eac> MB: Oh, there's a thought!! <g> Okay, so maybe I'm the Eac> only one who did do my part and wrote my Senator. Hard to tell. I Eac> still am figuring people out and am not there yet. I am really glad you did that, Marlena. Eac> Still, I got one fun letter in response from the one Eac> senator in our state who is one of the few moderate Republicans Eac> and actually does NOT want those sorts of cuts to happen. He Eac> usually loses and Bush does something to either threaten or Eac> punish him. Ah -- yes. Eac> I do hope that the other senator loses in the next election Eac> as he is one of the Bush Bully Boys and we have a really Eac> possible Democratic potential in the running. (She's currently Eac> our state auditor--she would be a great senator). sounds promising!! Eac> I, personally, do try to do what I can do. Most of the time Eac> I do not see that happening too much with other people, though. that may be because of where you live (!!). Eac> So, sometimes I do think that if we closed all the doors, Eac> put up the walls and had the Big Boys begin to focus, we'd be Eac> better off. I think they have too many distractions, sometimes. Eac> Too many pots to loot--and so, one strategy would be to remove Eac> the temptation until they proved they could handle it Eac> responsibly...or something like that. Eac> Kind of like taking a kid who is not able to focus (too Eac> tired, too many distractions, whatever) and holding his head Eac> still and saying "Look into my eyes." I'm just not sure isolationism would have that effect. JE> we think we do reasonably well right now, Marlena snipe :) Eac> MB: But, wouldn't it be SO much easier without our Eac> meddling? What if the only choice was to have the U.S. in the Eac> world's playground but as a meddler or to have the U.S. hiding Eac> out behind a wall trying to get itself put back into shape so it Eac> could play well with others? you have a point. Eac> Would you really want us the way we are, now? It's not Eac> that everyone else does so poorly now, it's that it sometimes at Eac> least *sounds* like everyone would like us to just go away from Eac> everywhere... except that people don't want you to, say, get out of the UN, but would like you not to trash it... JE> you mean you could control your corporations better if they were JE> confined to the US? (now there's a millennial dream!) Eac> MB: Well, again--I do like to dream! And, that was kind Eac> of a dream, I grant you. More like a fantasy, maybe? It would Eac> be easier to get control, though, if it took less time for them Eac> to loot and ruin in a small area and then to (hopefully) face Eac> the consequences of their own action. Yes -- I agree. But they're multinationals and there's nothing that can be done about that. Eac> I think it would take some major work and, frankly, I'm not Eac> very confident that the selfish souls in this nation even want Eac> to look at their actions. I agree. Eac> Oh, fine. You can tell I don't have it all figured out yet! it's impossible to figure out Eac> MB: Um. Yes... Okay. Kind of. It does bother me, though, Eac> to think that people run away from their own places because life Eac> is so horrible there. What I wonder is if people would stay Eac> or come if things in Mexico were as great as they are in Canada. Eac> (what Paul said) If they had a choice of staying in a cool Eac> place like Mexico and living a great life would they still want Eac> to come to the USA? I imagine that some would and some wouldn't. Agreed. But look. Some nations are wealthy by virtue of vast natural resources, some, fairly desperately poor. Suggesting that people in Southern Italy or Ireland pre-EU stay there and put things right there is not helpful (and it has been in the interests of the US not to say it, I add). Eac> It's either that or have all immigrant be legal and *make* Eac> those who are hiring the illegal immigrants pay them living Eac> wages...even for those horrible jobs that theoretically no one Eac> wants to do. Yes. Eac> I dislike knowing that they are being taken Eac> advantage of -- that people are having to take jobs paying them Eac> a pittance simply because they don't want to pay a decent wage. Eac> If I think about it too much, I almost go crazy... and Eac> sometimes if I end up going down that path, I end up thinking Eac> about how horrible life must be for them and their loved ones Eac> back in Mexico--if they are willing to live as slaves here being Eac> taken advantage of by people--then what is life like for those Eac> in Mexico? Is it really that horrible? Is there no one there Eac> fighting to reform Life there so that those who live there won't Eac> *need* the money sent to them in order to live a decent life? I honestlt don't know enough about Mexico so have simply assumed it falls into the "lack of natural resources" category (oh wait: yes there are people there working for reform, and, there are people there who live good lives). JE> like the Irish and the Italians? perhaps you should send them home Eac> MB: Well, I'm not sure we had too many standards regarding Eac> immigration at that point for so many to get in illegally. I Eac> thought many were able to get here legally... Yes -- I wasn't thinking about the legality of it, the point about staying in one's own country to try to make things better there seems to me independent of that. Eac> <g> No only to China...I am dreaming of going to the UK for Eac> the World Jamboree in 2007, though. Or, just to come on a Eac> scouting pilgrimage...we can stay in Lord Baden-Powell's home, Eac> spend the night at Brownsea, etc. It would be so grand...(But Eac> we have Seabase this summer first) I had to Google Brownsea! Nice -- Poole is very nice anyway (it's getting more and more fashionable and expensive!, but you won't need to worry about that if you have Brownsea. (That reminds me. This is an expensive place. Some US students in my local Starbucks were so horrified by the prices they just got one coffee -- between the 3 of them -- to go!) Eac> MB: Since this is MY fantasy, I think I can say that there would be!! <g> My mother was born in the US so I should be let in!! -- and there are cousins there still -- but my politics would tell against me... so I will use you as sponsor :) JE> quite Eac> MB: <g> I do like the way you write! or snipe :) Eac>> There is, as you all know, the part of me which IS an Eac>> isolationist. and, since I cannot fix everything (yet <g>), I'd Eac>> sometimes like to scale down so that we can fix what needs to be Eac>> fixed...feed those in our own neighborhoods, etc. JE> which would be a damn good idea. Eac> MB: Finally!! I really needed some words of affirmation Eac> about some of my thoughts! (Even if they were written when I Eac> was mulling things over and pondering Life and People and Eac> such...) you should probably read more by Europeans (!) concerned about poverty in the US. I realise it isn't that palatable to hear it from the outside, still, it would affirm your views. JE> so who are all these people who keep telling you how horrible JE> Americans are? Eac> MB: That's an interesting statement. We hear it here SO Eac> much--mostly from people from other countries who are visiting Eac> or working, I suppose. but do they tell you they think Americans are horrible? or do they, rather, tell you about dislike of "the US" (i.e. Bush and current US policy) in their country? Eac> (I think Andreas has even mentioned that Eac> in regards to those in his area, especially) It's on the news, Eac> in the papers, people say that in regards to what it is like Eac> Eac> when they visit overseas, etc. My friend who is in Italy and Eac> moving back to NYC says that she pretends to be Italian alot... I hear this all the time but think people are getting (and being given) the wrong idea. I know some US people visiting here are advised to say they're Canadian, but I do wonder whether the advice is slightly silly or even malign (malign in that it's intended to make US people feel insecure as soon as they get here). I bet the US people living here don't give that advice, and they certainly don't tell people they're Canadian! J> like you did till Pearl Harbor. Eac> MB: HEY! lol sorry about that Eac> Okay, fine. But, look what we have done to Eac> this world SINCE THEN?? What's the 'good' of what we have done Eac> since then? I don't think that those of us who communicate in Eac> the 'words of affirmation' get to hear that very often...(and Eac> that is one of my primary ways of communication...sad to say.) First I think you do get some, second I do think it's best not to rely on getting it! (I suggest you look at some of Tim Garton Ash's writing; he gives credit where credit is due._ Eac>> isn't that the way of Confucius? To take care of 'the Eac>> family' only? J> doesn't sound much like it to me > Eac> MB: Well, that was what I was told...I guess I'll have to Eac> do try to search out a reference? Or does anyone else who might Eac> have read this far have a better understanding of whether or not Eac> that is the Chinese/Confucius standard? I'll see what I can find JE> yes well, I'm an internationalist. (but one who does not want to obliterate localities and localisms -- mind you, it depends on the "localism"!) Eac> MB: <G> Yes, well. There's a thought...I suppose I'm a Eac> BIT of one. Or maybe that was my past life. Hard to say since Eac> I'm not sure I remember it very well... Still, you do expand my Eac> horizons so that is surely something-and I do think it positive. so I should keep sniping away? :) Judy -- mailto:judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html