[lit-ideas] Re: Dark Thoughts on Iraq

In a message dated 9/30/2005 8:23:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

JE>  .     But I don't want to see an
JE> old-style  isolationist  US. 


Eac> Hi, Judy...

Eac>  

Eac> Would you explain why you would not?

by  "old-style isolationist  US" I mean the isolationism of  the
Thirties.  It's easiest to quote:

>Hitler came to power  in January of 1933, the Second Great War began in
>1939, and America  didnât join the war until December of 1941

perhaps that explains why I  would not.



MB: Oh, okay. Yes. Well.  Fine. You do have a point. 
 
(I have a bad feeling that I'm about to face some facts...<g>)



Eac> Since we are so disliked everywhere, in some respects  <g>,
Eac> I often  think that would be not so  bad...

alternatively you could look -- as of course many in the US do  -- at
why "you" are "so disliked everywhere, in some respects", if, that  is,
that is indeed correct.

(You have probably not seen a full list  of countries who offered aif
after Katrina.  Or perhaps that does not  count.)

Well, isn't because we meddle so much?  And, since apparently the  'powers 
that be' are not able to restrain themselves, hiding out until we can  retrain 
them to behave seemed like it might make people in the rest of the world  
happier with us.
 
and, yes...there was a lot of support and, actually, I think it did an  
incredible amount of good in terms of those here who DO want the U.S. to 
regress  
back into a little world of their own.
(That was, of course, not the intent of those who gave, but it has  happened. 
It's rather interesting...)
 



Eac> I mean--we'd not be the so-called saviors any  longer;


I don't know who calls you  saviours



Oh, I think we call ourselves saviors.  No doubt no one else does--but  many 
here in the U.S. do think that the U.S. 'gives' a lot to other countries to  
help and assist (not really paying attention to the thought that we are all in  
this world together...
 

Eac> we'd
Eac> be focusing on  our own problems and  taking care of our own
Eac> people;

I certainly hope so.  You  could start by protesting against cuts in
Medicaid to pay for Katrina aid  relief.


MB:  Oh, there's a thought!!  <g>  Okay, so maybe I'm  the only one who did 
do my part and wrote my Senator. Hard to tell. I still  am figuring people out 
and am not there yet. 
 
Still, I got one fun letter in response from the one senator in our  state 
who is one of the few moderate Republicans and actually does NOT want  those 
sorts of cuts to happen.  He usually loses and Bush does something to  either 
threaten or punish him. His wife is going to do fund-raising this year  for 
Republicans. I only hope that she releases funds only to the moderates. 
 
I do hope that the other senator loses in the next election as he is one of  
the Bush Bully Boys and we have a really possible Democratic potential in  the 
running. (She's currently our state auditor--she would be a great  senator).  
 
I, personally, do try to do what I can do. Most of the time I do not see  
that happening too much with other people, though.  
 
So, sometimes I do think that if we closed all the doors, put up the walls  
and had the Big Boys begin to focus, we'd be better off. I think they have too  
many distractions, sometimes. Too many pots to loot--and so, one strategy 
would  be to remove the temptation until they proved they could handle it  
responsibly...or something like that.
 
Kind of like taking a kid who is not able to focus (too tired, too many  
distractions, whatever) and holding his head still and saying "Look into my  
eyes."  

Eac> we'd let Others be grown-ups  in their own  countries
Eac> and
Eac> [hopefully] their own personal  actions would be such  that they
Eac> would move towards collective  personal growth and development in
Eac> a  healthy way without our  meddling interference;

we think we do reasonably well right now,  Marlena


MB:  But, wouldn't it be SO much easier without our meddling?   What if the 
only choice was to have the U.S. in the world's playground but as a  meddler or 
to have the U.S. hiding out behind a wall trying to get itself put  back into 
shape so it could play well with others?
Would you really want us the way we are, now?  It's not that everyone  else 
does so poorly now, it's that it sometimes at least *sounds* like everyone  
would like us to just go away from everywhere...

Eac> we'd get
Eac> control, again, of our  so-called  global corporate world which is
Eac> draining the world dry and hurting  the  Earth;

you mean you could control your corporations better if  they were
confined to the US? (now there's a millennial dream!)


MB:  Well, again--I do like to dream!  And, that was kind of a  dream, I 
grant you.  More like a fantasy, maybe?  It would be easier  to get control, 
though, if it took less time for them to loot and ruin in a  small area and 
then to 
(hopefully) face the consequences of their own action.  Kind of like grabbing 
a kid knocking all the candy off the shelf in a store and  placing the child 
in a spot where the kid cannot do as much damage until he  calms down and 
focuses on what is causing the lack and limitation.
 
I think it would take some major work and, frankly, I'm not very confident  
that the selfish souls in this nation even want to look at their actions. (it's 
 hard enough for someone like me to face myself when *I* mess up or act less 
than  my best...)
 
It also might be easier to figure out how to get control if we could get  
them to stay put and let us figure out how to manage them...
 
Oh, fine.  You can tell I don't have it all figured out yet!

Eac>  we could create
Eac> that Wall so that the bright  smart creative illegal  immigrants
Eac> would have to begin True  Reform in their Own Nation of Mexico (or
Eac> wherever--

this is  satire, right?


MB:  Um. Yes...  Okay.  Kind of. It does bother me, though,  to think that 
people run away from their own places because life is so  horrible there.  What 
I wonder is if people would stay or come if  things in Mexico were as great as 
they are in Canada. (what Paul  said)   If they had a choice of staying in a 
cool place like Mexico  and living a great life would they still want to come 
to the USA?  I  imagine that some would and some wouldn't.
 
It's either that or have all immigrant be legal and *make* those who  are 
hiring the illegal immigrants pay them living wages...even for those  horrible 
jobs that theoretically no one wants to do.  I  dislike knowing that they are 
being taken advantage of -- that people are  having to take jobs paying them a 
pittance simply because they don't want to pay  a decent wage.  If I think 
about it too much, I almost go crazy...   and sometimes if I end up going down 
that path, I end up thinking about how  horrible life must be for them and 
their 
loved ones back in Mexico--if they are  willing to live as slaves here being 
taken advantage of  by people--then what is life like for those in Mexico?  Is 
it  really that horrible?  Is there no one there fighting to reform Life there 
 so that those who live there won't *need* the money sent to them in order to 
 live a decent life?   

Eac> okay, kind of tough love, but hey...we're talking
Eac>  long-term health  here of those they love and currently send
Eac>  money home to assist...)


like the Irish and the Italians? perhaps you  should send them home

MB: Well, I'm not sure we had too many standards  regarding immigration at 
that point for so many to get in illegally. I thought  many were able to get 
here legally...they had to work for a long time sometimes  to pay for passage 
and 
then gradually paid for one member and then another to  come (much like what 
happens now even on the legal side of things for  immigration).
 
I go to a friend's home on Sunday and as she is a major genealogy  buff and 
specializes in Italian genealogy, I'll find out more  then...

Eac> ; Europe  would become who it was born to
Eac>  be

I don't know what it was born to be or what you think it's like  right
now

MB: Well, I don't know, either, but I keep thinking that if  the US would 
just go away and not bother everyone that they'd be better  off.  And, for some 
strange reason--I keep hearing that, too.   Again--if the only choice is for us 
to go away and not interfere and make messes  or to keep interfering and 
making messes--which is better?  I mean--sure it  would be nice if we would 
somehow play well with all the others, but if those in  charge will not...that 
does 
not seem to be a feasible choice...
 
 

Eac> [and that we long to visit

OK, you haven't been  here
 
<g> No only to China...I am dreaming of going to the UK for the World  
Jamboree in 2007, though.  Or, just to come on a scouting pilgrimage...we  can 
stay 
in Lord Baden-Powell's home, spend the night at Brownsea, etc.  It  would be 
so grand...(But we have Seabase this summer first)

Eac> and,  of course,  there would still
Eac> be *some* visiting going  on...]

by you, yes.  Whether we would be allowed into the US is I  suppose to
be decided.


MB:  Since this is MY fantasy, I think I can say that there would  be!!  <g>


Eac> ; etc etc.

quite


MB:  <g>  I do like the way you write!

Eac> There  is, as you all know, the part of me which IS an
Eac>  isolationist.   and, since I cannot fix everything (yet <g>),  I'd
Eac> sometimes like to scale  down so that we can fix what needs  to be
Eac> fixed...feed those in our own  neighborhoods,  etc.

which would be a damn good idea.


MB:  Finally!!  I really needed some words of affirmation about  some of my 
thoughts!  (Even if they were written when I was mulling things  over and 
pondering Life and People and such...)

Eac>  

Eac> and, besides. I'm tired of hearing how  horrible Americans
Eac> are...

so who are all these people who keep  telling you how horrible
Americans are?

MB:  That's an  interesting statement.  We hear it here SO much--mostly from 
people from  other countries who are visiting or working, I suppose.  (I think 
Andreas  has even mentioned that in regards to those in his area, especially) 
   It's on the news, in the papers, people say that in regards to what it is 
like  when they visit overseas, etc.  My friend who is in Italy and moving 
back  to NYC says that she pretends to be Italian alot...

Eac> the   personality type of me that is not the puzzled 'why
Eac> don't they like  me' says to  just hole up and run away.  Harden
Eac> the heart  and shift the shoulder and  focus on those who are my
Eac>  own...

like you did till Pearl Harbor.

MB:  HEY!    Okay, fine.  But, look what we have done to this world SINCE 
THEN??   What's the 'good' of what we have done since then?  I don't think that 
 
those of us who communicate in the 'words of affirmation' get to hear that 
very  often...(and that is one of my primary ways of communication...sad to  
say.)

Eac> isn't that the way of Confucius?  To take care of 'the  
Eac> family' only?  


doesn't sound much like it  to me


MB:  Well, that was what I was told...I guess I'll have to do try to  search 
out a reference?  Or does anyone else who might have read this far  have a 
better understanding of whether or not that is the Chinese/Confucius  standard?

Eac>  (Granted, part of me says get rid of the federal  
Eac> government and just be nation-states as states,  too...okay,
Eac> counties.   Okay--we want separate from Kansas  City. Eastern
Eac> parts of counties separate from  Western. Or maybe  just feudal
Eac> cities again...)


yes well, I'm an  internationalist.



MB:  <G>   Yes, well.  There's a thought...I  suppose I'm a BIT of one. Or 
maybe that was my past life. Hard to say since  I'm not sure I remember it very 
well...   Still, you do expand my  horizons so that is surely something-and I 
do think it positive.
 
I always enjoy 'talking' with you!
 
Best,
Marlena in Missouri

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