[lit-ideas] Re: Can't have a gun? Get a dog
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 23:19:38 -0700
You said "(1) Andreas did not say that there was no need to sort things out
when it came to determining whether you or your dog would be 'dominant."
But that's exactly what he said:
Andreas quoted my statement:
LH> People are reacting to Eric's comment, but I took him to be speaking
LH> figuratively. His principle is valid. An owner must show a dominant
dog
LH > that he is boss or the dog will think he is.
Andreas then wrote:
AS: This "show 'em who's boss" theory used to be the idea in dog schools.
AS: But no longer. Professional dog trainers don't do this.
AS: By the way, it's no longer called "dog obedience school".
This is what I was responding to when I wrote the message you imagined was a
strawman but was intended as a reductio ad absurdum. Notice the words I
wrote: "An owner must show a dominant dog that he is boss or the dog will
think he is."
Notice Andreas response: "This show em who's boss" theory used to be the
idea in dogs schools. But no longer. Professional dog trainers don't do
this."
And now observe that Andreas was wrong. Professional dog trainers still do
this. They still tell you that you have to show a dominant dog that you are
boss or he will think he is.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Robert Paul
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:53 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Can't have a gun? Get a dog
Lawrence Helm wrote:
> Good grief! I guess one of us "needs to read the posts leading up to
this."
>
> Here is what Andreas wrote. Note that he has my statement in quotes.
> Note that he is disagreeing with it:
and
> The Dog Whisperer, Caesar Milan say you need to show the dog you are the
> alpha of the pack (aka show the dog you are boss).
and
> Every trainer I've ever heard from says the same thing.
and
> If you have a dominant dog, you had better prove to him that you're the
> boss or you are in for big trouble.
and
> Okay, let's hear how your opposing theory, i.e., showing the dog he is
> boss, works better. And let's hear who your authorities are.
and
> There is no strawman. Andreas was wrong. I noticed that Andreas went
> off on a tangent about non-dominant dogs, but that had nothing to do
> with the statement of mine that he disagreed with.
Christ, I was going to read that Liberal-Marxist journal, The New York
Times. (1) Andreas did not say that there was no need to sort things out
when it came to determining whether you or your dog would be 'dominant.'
What he did say, or imply, was that there were different ways of going
about this. You reply to him as if he'd said something he didn't. (2)
Nobody here expressed a wish for a theory in which training results in
'showing the dog he is boss.' That is what I called a straw man.
The dogs have been asleep for hours.
Robert Paul
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