What straw man? I made a statement that I think all dog trainers will agree with despite Andreas list; which doesn't support his thesis as far as I can tell. You must show a dominant dog that you are the alpha or he will be the alpha. If anyone sees a negative implications in this then they put them there. This is a simple fact - not a straw man. One of the best ways to show a dominant dog that you are boss is to take him on a lot of walks. He wants to go. You have the leash and can tell him to stop at the corner, to go left rather than right, to take that junk out of his mouth, etc. To Mike: Feeding a dog won't do it. Taking a dog's dish away from him while he is eating, however, will be one way to show your dominance. If he growls and keeps you from taking his dish, then he is dominant. Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Paul Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 9:43 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Can't have a gun? Get a dog David Ritchie wrote: > But Lawrence is, I think generally right; dogs who want to lead the pack > will challenge until they either win, or figure out who really ought to > lead the pack. Less ambitious dogs have different understandings of the > world and should be trained differently. Again, no one is questioning that dogs will (well, a lot of dogs will) keep challenging you until you arrive at a modus vivendi; and some will keep trying it on until old age or boredom sets in. I don't know how this discussion became one in which it's being argued that Lawrence is right and the straw man is wrong. Robert Paul feet resting on a sleeping Terrier somewhere south of Reed College