[lit-ideas] Re: Assassination of Yassin

MC:  Do *all* Palestinians want *all* of Palestine? If so, then
Palestine is the only nation on earth whose inhabitants all want
precisely the same thing.

Veronica: I did not say, "all Palestinians," I said both sides want all of
Palestine.  You call it intellectual sloppiness, I call it nit picking on
your part. Same with the Israelis.

I made an assumption, obviously erroneous, that when one speaks of any
group of people, one is referring to most of them.  There are always
exceptions.  

The point however is that the Palestinian people have not voted in a long
time, but at one time they did, and they elected Yasser Arafat.  I am
assuming that what goes down from the Palestinian side is with the approval
of Mr. Arafat.  The Israelis did elect Sharon, not unanimously, so I am
assuming that the majority thought he was the best person to protect them
from suicide bombers.

MC:By the way, is the intifada the same thing
 
as suicide bombings?

Veronica: Does not the intifada beget the suicide bombings?  Is there no
relationship between them?  Perhaps I am missing something.  Please explain.

MC:Here, Veronica, who has been teetering on the brink of the
nonsensical throughout her post, goes over the edge. Has "someone on
the list" been advocating the "killing of a terrorist leader"? Didn't think
so.
 
I don't speak for anyone "on this list" but myself, but I think 
my
view is fairly straightforward: I don't approve of the killing of any
leader, terrorist or otherwise. 

Veronica: I was not referring to your or anyone else's advocacy of killing
terrorists.  I was referring to the fact that many governments believe that
capturing terrorists is practically impossible, so they must be killed. 
The killing of the leader of Hamas is clearly an attempt to put a stop to
suicide bombings by getting rid of the leadership, planners, etc.  

Veronica: Regarding my pessimism for the positive outcome of the peace
process, as you point out, I am going by the history of this project.  I
hear people representing Palestinians here on the media wanting the
American government, or leaders of the EU, etc., to get involved in working
on this.  I do not foresee any American president, in the near future, get
involved in this.  They see what happened to Clinton and I think they are
very wary.  Also, in the final analysis, either Palestinians and Israelis
will talk to each other, or the carnage will go on.

In any case, it doesn't really matter what any of us think.  The people
with power, of one kind or another, determine our fates.  Once governments
obtain power, they always say their actions are on our behalf, with or
without our consent.

Veronica




> [Original Message]
> From: Michael Chase <goya@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 3/26/2004 2:28:36 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Assassination of Yassin
>
>
> Le vendredi, 26 mars 2004, =E0 02:12 Europe/Paris, Veronica Caley a =
> =E9crit=20
> :
>
> >  Re Leon Klinghoffer,
> >
> > Thanks Judy for your correction re Mr. Klinghoffer's name.
> > Re the question of whether he was killed because he was a Jew, that=20
> > seems
> > to have been the opinion of the press, etc., in the US anyway.
> >
> > Re the key paragraph that Omar posted about the revenge and blood
bath=20=
>
> > to
> > follow after the killing of the spiritual leader of Hamas, isn't the=20=
>
> > point
> > of all this is that both sides have given up on any sort of
compromise=20=
>
> > or
> > solution?  Isn't it true that the Palestinians want all of Palestine,
>
> M.C. This sentence might by a good subject for a little (Gricean?)=20
> analysis. Do *all* Palestinians want *all* of Palestine? If so, then=20
> Palestine is the only nation on earth whose inhabitants all want=20
> precisely the same thing.
>
>
> > therefore the Israelis believe that they have nothing to lose?  It's=20=
>
> > fight
> > to the death.
>
> M.C. This is almost certainly the perception of *some* Israelis,=20
> notably Mr. Sharon, but surely not of all of them.
> >
> > And the Palestinians believe that they will never have a state of =
> their
> > own, that they are entitled to all of Palestine,
>
> M.C. Again, see above. I don't really think Veronica believes that=20
> *all* Palestinians believe this; she's just being intellectually sloppy.
>
>
>
>
> > so they let loose with
> > suicide bombers, intifada, etc., since they, too, are ready to fight=20=
>
> > to the
> > death.
>
> M.C. Some are, some are not. By the way, is the intifada the same
thing=20=
>
> as suicide bombings?
> >
> > Am I the only one that sees the peace process as lots of processs
that=20=
>
> > goes
> > nowhere?  They have been fighting this since 1948.  That does not
bode=20=
>
> > well
> > for the outcome of the peace process.
>
> M.C. This is the most reasonable observation Veronica has made so far.=20=
>
> On the basis of history, there does indeed seem to be justification
for=20=
>
> pessimism with reagrd to the peace process, at least with regard to
the=20=
>
> immediate future. What do you conclude from this, Veronica? That both=20
> parties should just give up? Or that one of them - obviously the=20
> stronger one - should expel, incarcerate, or just plain annihilate the=20=
>
> other?
>
>
>
>
> >  I suppose the next person to get
> > killed will be Sharon.
>
> M.C. That doesn't strike me as particularly likely. Israel's recent=20
> history has  that those who delight in war tend to die in their bed,=20
> whereas those who pursue peace have notably shorter life-spans=20
> (remember Rabin=A0?)
> >
> > I would be interested in someone on this list explaining why it's ok =
> to
> > kill one terrorist leader but not another.
>
> M.C. Here, Veronica, who has been teetering on the brink of the=20
> nonsensical throughout her post, goes over the edge. Has "someone on=20
> the list" been advocating the "killing of a terrorist leader"? Didn't=20
> think so.
>
>       I don't speak for anyone "on this list" but myself, but I think =
> my=20
> view is fairly straightforward: I don't approve of the killing of any=20
> leader, terrorist or otherwise. Hope that's clear.
>
>       Best, Mike.
> >
> >
> Michael Chase=09
> (goya@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> CNRS UPR 76/
> l'Annee Philologique
> Villejuif-Paris
> France
>
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