I understand. Denial is about the only reaction possible. As far as Ed Bernays, I sent that link a while back. It was a BBC production. Baker quotes Goebbels admiring Bernays. I looked through the book, didn't read it. Eric, if you think 45 million dead bodies (can you imagine that many people in one place?) and cities turned into dust and ashes is civilization, then please define civilization. Salting the earth for centuries to come maybe? There was never any civilization throughout history. Only concentrated groups of people with ever improved methods of killing of each other and each other's edifices and ever imaginative reasons to do so.. And we are among the worst offenders. The facts speak for themselves. --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Eric Yost <mr.eric.yost@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Eric Yost <mr.eric.yost@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Al Pacacino To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:23 PM >>History is written by the victor, in this case the one standing on top of the biggest pile of dead bodies. That's quite an achievement. You make me admire historians. How does one even get a desk up there? The smell. The instability of large piles. Then there's the problem of references ... and visitors. >> the media in the U.S. today is one of which Goebbels would be proud, and that is but a statement of fact. Wow! You must have found a primary source from Goebbels...maybe something called "Media I Would Have Been Proud of if I Weren't Dead." That's great historical research. >>think of all the inventions that were never invented and the discoveries never discovered among the 45 million dead bodies. Nonexistent things hidden among 45 million bodies? You really are challenging. >>Also, Eric, dropping the equivalent of 280 atomic bombs on Montana and walking away qualifies as pretty bizarre, don't you think? The people of Montana would not have the chance to think it was bizarre but, indeed, I do. Plus dropping bombs and walking away would put one outside of the bombing aircraft. Parachuting into mushroom clouds, Mr. Amazement ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html