In a message dated 4/20/2011 2:51:27 P.M., jejunejesuit.geary2@xxxxxxxxx refers to 'ajar': "1718, perhaps from Scottish dialectal a char "slightly open," earlier on char (early 16c.), from M.E. char, from O.E. cier "a turn."" McEvoy wrote: "[If] the "I know(1) I know(2)" is meant so that "know" (1) and (2) are the self-same mental state, ... the expression is redundant (and makes as little sense as 'Please close the door which is the door"." to which Geary objected. I know that p. I know that I know that p. Geary's variants: I ignore that p (e.g. "I ignore that the earth is flat") I ignore that I ignore that p. The second claims in each case involves a knowledge in _epistemics_ and agnotology, respectively. "I know that p" just commits you to knowing 'that p'. "I know that I KNOW that p" requires that you should be able to expand on what 'knows' means to you. E.g. justified true belief. Similarly, "I ignore that p." (e.g. "I ignore that Paris is the capital of France," to use Geary's example) commits you to an agnotological clain in _geography_. The more philosophical, "I ignore that I ignore that p." commits you to Proctos and his Agnotology workshop at Stanford. Agnotology is a branch of agnoiology,"the science or ignorance, which determines its quality and conditions and the doctrine concerning those things of which we are necessarily ignorant" (Ferrier, 19th-century author). Cheers JL ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html