[lit-ideas] Re: A Genuinely Useful Thought
- From: "Simon Ward" <sedward@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:20:38 -0000
"Simon says [an alliance between the left and Radical Islam] is a pipe dream,
but David Horowitz has made a career out of exposing Leftists who ally
themselves with Radical Islam. You perhaps missed all the discussion about his
book Unholy Alliance, Radical Islam and the American Left."
Dutifully, I did a search on my Lit-Ideas posts (only back to January 2006 I'm
afraid), and the most I could find on Horowitz' book were nine posts, the
majority of which were referring back to a mention by Lawrence at the end of
one paragraph. So in my case, yes perhaps I did miss this discussion.
Given that and assuming that this is a subject that still interests Lawrence, I
wonder whether he'd be so kind as to summarise the evidence for an alliance
between the Left and Radical Islam. And by evidence, I'm not thinking of a
coincidence of opposition to the Bush Administration, but an actual link
between the two groups that demonstrates active collusion.
The fact that David Horowitz has made a career out of 'exposing leftists who
ally themselves with Radical Islam' is no proof that such an alliance exists,
merely that there is a market for such assertions.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: A Genuinely Useful Thought
Well, you've repeated a number of your ideas -- all of which I've countered
with arguments based upon evidence -- none of which you have replied to, but I
see that when the mood is upon you, you can trot them out and take them once
around the track while wearing a new fedora. Then of course there is the
inevitable personal attack in lieu of argument or counter argument - the sort
of thing judy says doesn't go on. I wondered if you Lefties would hold off
making it sound like Judy was right about all these attacks, but not so. Was
it the scorpion who couldn't resist stinging the fox swimming it across the
river or the snake? I can't recall.
Let me remind you that one series of arguments I developed at great length
was to counter your interpretation of Fukuyama. I reread Fukuyama to see if
perchance I had forgotten something, but I hadn't. I produced quotes and
analyses from Fukuyama to show that you had misunderstood him. You replied to
none of those notes. You would do well to strike this one from your list -
just in case anyone else bothers to read Fukuyama
Well, we could have a duel to see who understands Iraq the best. We can make
it a verbal duel. But then I tried to have several of those in the past but
those attempts were always responded to by the Judy-denied insults.
I stated that I wasn't able to see the video because I had just switched to
Vista and couldn't get it. You must have missed that. I've since added a
flash add-on and could probably get it now, but I have been busy elsewhere.
And as I said it doesn't interest me; so I haven't bothered.
And no I don't think anyone needs to support me. What I do think is that
Americans need to favor the defense of their nation. They need to support
efforts to oppose our enemies. Leftists aren't very good at those things.
They want to say America is just as bad if not worse than our enemies. As
often as not they jump in and lambaste America as soon as someone voices
opposition to Militant Islam. Simon says this is a pipe dream, but David
Horowitz has made a career out of exposing Leftists who ally themselves with
Radical Islam. You perhaps missed all the discussion about his book Unholy
Alliance, Radical Islam and the American Left.
And where did you get your final complaint? You think I "constantly call for
perpetual war against everyone who is different. Kill. Kill. Kill." Do you
really think that? Then you missed out on Fukuyama who advocates the peaceful
expansion of Liberal Democracy. He says it is going to happen whether we will
or no. You forgot that I hoped Fukuyama was right but feared that Huntington
might be. You forgot the discussions of Thomas Barnett's The Pentagon's New
Map, War and Peace in the Twenty-First Century. I don't believe in perpetual
war. I don't think that is going to happen. Not even Huntington says that.
He sees war along the Civilizational "fault lines." Barnett in building upon
Fukuyama believes that we should encourage what he calls the "non-Integrating
Gap" nations to become integrated and join what he calls the "Functioning
Core," and he doesn't propose doing this with military means. We will fight
only when necessary and then only against Failed or Rogue nations that endanger
the "Functioning Core." These three approaches to the future are the only
ones I have considered seriously in recent months and none of them go "kill.
Kill. Kill."
You and Irene do manage to repeat your Leftist Mantra, but you don't develop
foundations for your assertions. Sometimes you post articles. Yes I know
that, but your articles do not provide conclusive proof for your positions. At
best you could with humility claim there is a plausible case for some of them.
I might not agree with that, but I might not take issue. But you come on much
too strong. With little or no evidence you speak as though you have the
absolute truth and that anyone who doesn't accept what you say is a fool or
worse. Your performances in light of the dearth of evidence supporting your
claims are not very impressive - at least not to me. Irene probably likes
them, though.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andreas Ramos
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:09 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: A Genuinely Useful Thought
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> No point in going too deeply into this. I have expressed my disgust,
> irritation, and annoyance over Leftist who can't argue.
Lawrence, the problem is you.
- You don't understand what you read. You misunderstood Fukuyama. You don't
realize that
Huntington's "clash of civilizations" is a useless idea.
- You don't understand what is going on in Iraq (you think it is about
"terrorists").
- You see a video of Saddam's hanging and you misunderstand the situation.
- You think anyone who doesn't support you is a "Leftist" (which is utterly
meaningless in
this discussion because Iraq is about geopolitics, not economics).
- And you constantly call for perpetual war against everyone who is
different. Kill. Kill.
Kill.
Am I missing any more items?
yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
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