In a message dated 9/21/2004 10:21:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: the view that mathematical statements are tautolgous (as per Wittgstn's TLP) is controversial to say the least, and perhaps to be rejected (as it is by many philosophical mathematicians) - rejected essentially because the meaning of '12' is not contained in the meaning of '5' and '7', and equally the meaning of '4' is not contained in the meaning of '2'. That is, mathematics is synthetic, albeit not empirical as in testable/falsifiable by observation. This 'synthetic' quality is shown by the fact certain mathematical theorems have been disproved, whereas one cannot disprove a definition. ---- Yep, I noticed that too in R. Paul's example. One reason may be that Kant, who gave the example in the subject-line, was not too good at mathematics. Thus, while "2 + 2 = 4" is tautologous and analytic to R. Paul -- who does well in maths -- the same utterance is synthetic and entrenched in the constitutional apperception for the apriori self in Kant (who was bad at maths). Cheers, JL ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html