[LRflex] R10 Speculation response. (also long)

All:
Interesting speculations! Some of your ideas are certainly better than mine, so here are my takes on some of your comments: 

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Mehrdad wrote:


so 24 in development, probably means 6-8 production lens.
You could be right ... at least at the start. However, from what I have heard, I would expect all of them to see production, within 12 months of Photokina. The sheer number of lenses planned indicates a mount change ... even if the mount is fully compatible with existing lenses, some changes would be needed for electrical contacts (as was done with the Pentax K100s and K10d). If full (or even partial) compatibility is maintained, many of these 24 could be existing optical designs, in new AF mounts. Time will tell. 


one of the problems with m8 and canon FF and the usage of wide angle
is how the rays hit the sensor, now may be (this is my hypothesis
after couple glasses) with just a bigger sensor, the wides can hit the
right spot on the sensor and the camera electronically masks the "bad
areas"
How the rays hit the sensor at the edges is much more of a problem with the M8 than with any dSLR due to the short distances between the rear elements and the senor. The mirror box forces the rear elements further away from the sensor, reducing -though not eliminating - the problem. With newer microlens technology, a FF R camera could (repeat: could) work quite well.
That being said, I like your idea, but cannot see how it would work. Of course, it's early in the morning for me, so my head is, perhaps, much too clear!
if there is a mount change or any of the current R ROM lenses are compromised, i will pass on on the new R digital, as the investment will be way too much, i do like to have an avenue to AF lenses but at my pace and when i am ready.
Personally, I'm with you... if the current lenses are useable only in aperture priority, with stop down metering, I might as well stay with my current (or newer) Canon's and adapters. 

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a aa wrote:


One reason I can think of for having a larger than full frame sensor
is to allow built into the body anti-shake, where the last few mm of
the sensor will not be within the image circle of the lens.
Ah yes ... anti-shake. I'd not thought about this! I like the idea, for it makes sense!
I am curious about film in the new R system. Will there be an AF film body too?
My understanding is that the new R10 is a pure digital camera and there are no plans for film "R" at this time. If you wish to use film, the R9 is still available. 

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William Abbott offered:
That would allow the sensor to be moved relative to the image for image stabilization. Think about it.
Another good idea and one which I had not considered. Whether physically moved, or electronically moved, a slightly larger sensor would make this practical! As Mehrdad pointed out, the larger the sensor, the harder in camera IS is to make work. But if it were moved electronically, it would be more reliable (any moving sensor must be connected by a flexible circuit, and flexing will invariably cause failure, given enough time) and blindingly fast. In this case, the sensor need only be slightly larger than FF, and thus work with existing mounts. 

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Frank Filippone said:
First of all, you do remember that this is the LUG list and not the HUG list? Square stuff goes to HUG, rectangular stuff to LUG. Got it?
Remember, the square idea was only idle speculation, on my part, as to how a "larger than full frame" sensor might be used with current glass. It has not been publicly mentioned, or even hinted at, by anybody! So don't get too wound out about this one! I do not think it practical, on any level.
New mount is probably required, or at least, for some way of auto-focusing the lens?..maybe those silent wave motors and some more contacts on the back of the lens? Could preserve all the past and look forward to the future?? 

That is what I would like to see.
24 lenses in development? Sounds a bit grandiose?.. Must include all the Panasonic ?Leica? lenses, etc. 6 M lenses a year? What for? Replacement for the 50 Summicron is probably first?..then what? All the other focal lengths have recently been updated?..Maybe a few more Summarits?
Hey! I only allowed that 6 M lenses would be overkill... and that still left 18 for a new R camera. I suspect we'll see two lens lines. A Summarit (high quality, consumer) line and a "pro" line with all the APO stuff. Now sure what the nomenclature will be. Don't forget, that with ISO's of 1600+, slightly slower lenses remain very practical! They are less expensive to design and simpler to build while maintaining incredible optical quality!
My guess would be 4 to 6 (135mm & shorter) in the high-quality consumer line and the rest in the pro line. But, once again, that's my guess. Not fact.
Speaking of Summarits, Christian Erhardt (Leica's US Sales Manager) had some Summarits at Rochester... but only for show, not for loan. Apparently they are still "in development" and I did not get to see them.
As for the 24 including some Pana & M lenses, I suspect you are right... I'm pretty sure the total number was offered to throw the competition off track, though I believe the number to be a correct total.
And for that other speculation on the 40M pixels?.. sounds close to the 39MP back for a Hasselblad?? and for that matter, so does the ?larger than full frame? sensor?.. makes me wonder of Leica and Hasselblad ( or is that Leica and Hassel-Imacon ?) have something up their sleeves?. Wouldn?t that be interesting? MF Leica? I am digging that idea! 

I'm not!
Realistically speaking, Leica have stated that they wish to re-capture their lost pro market. Competing against Hassy and Mamiya would be easier than competing against Nikon and Canon. Perhaps a larger sensor in 6x4.5 format? 

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Douglas Sharp chimed in, with:


2 other possible reasons for FF+ sensor
1) 16:9 format (wider mirror - not deeper)
2) To minimise edge effects - slight sensor curvature would mean a larger sensor size to cover a fullframe format
1) The 16:9 format has a strong "consumer" connotation ... not sure if it would work to attract the 'pro' market other than those doing Pano work. Also, a wider mirror would make it impossible for existing glass to work - the image circle is not large enough. And Leica have stated that current glass will work, even if only via an adapter. Other than that "fly in the ointment", a good idea!
2) I like the curved sensor. If that proves practical, it would give them a real leg up in the FF market. However, knowing how sensors are made, on flat wafers, I cannot see how this would be practical. But then, who knows what Kodak have up their sleeves? Both chaps from Kodak were very clear they would not talk about what developments are "in the pipe"! 

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Keith Longmore added:
Speculation about what Leica will do is bound to be fascinating (a 'merry sport') but at the end of the day, the reaction of a far wider audience than this forum will be the ultimate decider - and not least, the reaction of the photographic press.
Well, Keith, we all have about 11 months to speculate. Whatever it is, that Leica are planning, they are letting us know just enough to keep our interest up. OTOH, they are not letting too many details out, as they do not wish their competitors to know their plans.
In the end, the "larger than FF" sensor makes sense to me, if in-camera IS is accomplished electronically (as has been done in various camcorders) as opposed to physically (as in the Pentax K10d). It need then not be a lot larger, and would allow the use of existing lenses.
Remember, much of this may be simply good marketing. If we are all worried about compatibility for our existing glass, and they come out with (a) a ff camera with (b) IS via electronic shifting on a 5% larger sensor and (c) AF that is implemented by electrical contacts in the existing mount (as per Pentax) we will all be so relieved, that we are likely to run, en masse, to the stores with our money in our hands!
In any event, trying to make sense of what was said, will keep us all going until next Photokina. At this time, Rose and I are planning to be there for the introduction. I am hoping, as with the M8, to have a sample, before that - though this is not guaranteed. If it works out that way, you will have a report on the first day that publication is allowed. If not, I will post a full report upon our return from Photokina. 

As Frank said.. "Oh, well? in about a year, we will know??..( maybe.)"
Oh, and one more thing to speculate about ... Hr. Kaufmann announced the creation, in Switzerland, of Leica Cinema. Very few details on this, although it seems they are going after the commercial projection market. 

Cheers!









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David Young,
Logan Lake, CANADA

Wildlife Photographs: http://www.telyt.com/
Personal Web-pages: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
Stock Photography at: http://tinyurl.com/2amll4

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