[LRflex] Re: (LRflex) Shopping Frustration

Hi Richard
this is what makes internet such an interesting "place" : just so many people 
that have loads of experience and make time for newbees like me to help them on 
the way. 
I like your story. I had a depression and besides my wife and children it was 
my decision to get back to university to study Philosophy and the R3 and the 
making of images that made me so much better. Photography helps people get 
better ;-) that is a scientific fact. And all that at a fraction of the cost of 
many doctors etc. 
  You wrote : "As for "Shopping Frustration": I simply want to ask about any 
tips or info a list member might be able to pass along because, so far, the 
only thing I've been able to get with months of searching eBay, the 'Net, and 
Locally, for 'R' equipment is a terrible case of Shoppers Frustration. 
Everything I encounter seems to be outlandishly expensive limited editions, 
collectors items, and f0.0 Niche Lenses on the top end and the bottom end are 
all pricey near mint condition stuff commanding premium prices. Where the heck 
can I find the stuff someone's actually USED"
I understand the feeling because I had the same feeling, but after some time i 
found out it was not so much caused by high prices but by the fact that I was 
overwhelmed. So I decided to collect the prices of the most common lenses and 
camera's on ebay and put them on a spreadsheet. So, confusion went away. I know 
what a Nikon ai-s 24mm costs, and what a 24mm R-lens costs. And those prices 
are not so high as you may think, and certainly not as high as new prices ... 
I now can concentrate on my photo's and deside what stuff I really need most, 
and a simple look at my sheet will learn me what it would cost to solve this 
need with a Af-s zoom, a prime of Nikon or a Leica R. My spreadsheet is under 
construction, not at all final, but after a few weeks already I find it quite 
workable. 
Like you, I think the most important thing is the love for making pictures, and 
getting the lens you can afford and that makes nice pictures you want is 
essential. 
I have not yet made any decission yet. But I have fun with the cheap things i 
do have. Patience and realism are important.
Of course, since you already have more experience, it should be easier for you 
to deside. You know what lens you need, you only need a more clear view of the 
prices, I think.
Hope this helps a little, just my 2c
greetings, Axel
PS. sorry for my english, I do my best.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Ward 
  To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:27 AM
  Subject: [LRflex] Re: (LRflex) Shopping Frustration


  Hello Alex,
     thanks for your compliment on the image I posted. Welcome to the slr club! 
and remember that no one ever got to be an expert without first being a Newbie! 
Relish those newbie mistakes for quite often the best learned lessons are found 
in figuring out where things went wrong rather than pondering why something 
went right. Stumbles and misteps seem to focus the mind so much more 
beautifully!
     You inquired about what my budget might be for picking up some 'R' 
equipment in order to help the discussion about the purchasing challenges I've 
been encountering. It's actually a pretty good question and the only pretty 
good answer I have is that it depends on what I'd be buying! If it's just a 
single lens I would want to keep it under a few hundred u.s. dollars depending 
on which lens it was and it's condition. If it's a broader purchase with a body 
and an extra lens or two I might spend few times as much. There are a lot of 
if's - depends on - and maybe's wrapped up in the process, I must admit. Also 
the less spent on item 'a' might allow adding an item 'b' or even a 'c' to my 
purchases. 
     My shopping list consists of hoping to own a Wide Angle, a Standard, OR a 
Short Tele in the near term that I can use on my dSLR. If it's just one lens I 
end up acquiring, so be it. I'd certainly be open to getting more than one lens 
or a body/lens combo or a zoom or a longer telephoto lens as long as it's a 
purchase that helps spark and fan my love and enjoyment of image making. My 
photography helps nourish my soul in difficult times and anything I buy is 
ultimately just a tool to help in navigating a tricky passage through rocky 
waters.

  Was my answer to much of a cop out?

  Richard
     
    



  ________________________________


  Life is hard...but I just take it one photograph at a time.
  ~•~
  "You miss 100% of the shots you never take" Wayne Gretzky 
  ~•~
  In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows or Gates?
  ~•~ 
  It's okay to be stupid. Just don't be gung-ho about it.
  ________________________________





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Axel Collier <axel.collier@xxxxxxxxxx>
  To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:40:21 PM
  Subject: [LRflex] Re: (LRflex) Shopping Frustration

   
  Hi
  I own a R3 and an angenieux zoom that my father gave me a few months ago. I 
fell in love with it and use it often and next to some Nikon stuff i bought 
last christmas as a present for myself ;-) I like the Nikon stuff also, I am 
not a fanatic.I am a newbee. But I bought a F80 and a 70-300G lens for 200 
euros all in and i have a lot of fun with it. The lens has it limitations as 
you will all know, I guess.
  So, I wonder what your budget is, which is none of my bussiness but it could 
help in this discussion. 
  A nice R3 for example could be had for 100 Euros on Ebay. All you need is 
some patience. You don't have to sell your car to buy a R4 or R5 neither. 
  A 24 or 28mm Elmarit can be had for some 300 euros. And a 35mm or 50mm for 
even less. The price of the 135mm and 180mm Elmarit is reasonable as well. I 
know this because I wanted to buy one or two R-lenses myself and because my 
budget is limited too. That is why i look at ebay very often ... that is : 
every day. It think now it is possible to pay not (much) more for it than for 
Nikon stuff . 
  My impression is that it is possible to own R-lenses IF you stay away from 
some very special lenses like the 80mm Summilux or the apo 100mm and the 90mm 
summicron asph.And maybe the 280mm apo lenses ...
  One day I will buy one of these lenses, but first i want to know better what 
lens that would make me the most happy. That means i have to take more 
pictures. Which is fun.
  greetings, and by the way, i like this users group and the picture of Richard.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Richard Ward 
    To: LeicaReflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:46 AM
    Subject: [LRflex] (LRflex) Shopping Frustration


    Hello List,
       my name's Richard and I'm still new here, but it seems like a nice group 
of users here. I have received some nice comments about the Image I posted a 
link to on the list to an image I shot with my Zeiss Pancolar on my 20D. 
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3267824103_9f55579064_b.jpg) Since I'm not 
yet a member of the "R" ownership club as of yet, I kind of felt a need to 
establish having some Chops as a Photographer if I'm going to be posting around 
these parts. 
       As for "Shopping Frustration": I simply want to ask about any tips or 
info a list member might be able to pass along because, so far, the only thing 
I've been able to get with months of searching eBay, the 'Net, and Locally, for 
'R' equipment is a terrible case of Shoppers Frustration. Everything I 
encounter seems to be outlandishly expensive limited editions, collectors 
items, and f0.0 Niche Lenses on the top end and the bottom end are all pricey 
near mint condition stuff commanding premium prices. Where the heck can I find 
the stuff someone's actually USED, that has wear on the outside, cleaning marks 
and (Heaven Forbid!) even a scratch in the coating. The "3 Cam" & ROM Lenses 
(?did I say that right?) might be the latest greatest, I surmise, but there 
must be something usable about those  1 cam or 2 cam lenses, too, isn't there? 
I'm willing to try em! Sigh. 
       I will admit my budget is narrower than I would prefer to pick up an R 
lens or two, but it is 'enough' and if I'm willing to accept cosmetic 
conditions and even potential cla issues, it seems rather ___<insert cursing 
adjective>___ that I'm not encountering stuff like that out in the marketplace. 
       Thanks for letting me Vent LRflex members. I'll find something to 
acquire. Imagemaking has always been an expression of my heart and quite rarely 
a source of income. Since becoming disabled, it's become an especially 
treasured activity because now that it isn't a casual endeavour anymore, just 
coming away with snapshots isn't very fulfilling.  :-) 
       
    Sincerely
    Richard W.

    West Michigan, USA

       


    ________________________________


    Life is hard...but I just take it one photograph at a time.
    ~•~
    "You miss 100% of the shots you never take" Wayne Gretzky 
    ~•~
    In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows or Gates?
    ~•~ 
    It's okay to be stupid. Just don't be gung-ho about it.
    ________________________________

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