[LRflex] Re: IMPORTANT: Re: DMR Support

Hi Tim!  You wrote:
>Thanks for a very illuminating reply:)

Glad that you found it so. :-)

>I am glad to hear that there is such a thing as v1.3. I would be 
>over the moon if someone could tell me abouts its features.

Yes, I would be, too!  Sadly, other than having been able to confirm 
it's existence, I know very little about it.  The only reports I've 
heard are that it is a "big improvement".  That, however, does not 
tell us much!  I am hoping that this "big improvement" is in the area 
of the AWB, for that is where the DMR still falls down, particularly 
indoors.  Still, I find V1.2 very usable (v1.1 had some real "issues" 
in this regard) and, fortunately, anything it fails to do, is easily 
and quickly remedied in Silkypix.

>I am sure you are right about Imacon - a bit embarassing being 
>Danish myself:( -

It would only be reasonable to assume that Imacon's agenda has 
changed, since being purchased by Hasselblad.  I'm sure that they 
will complete the project, as they have a contractual obligation to 
do so.  I surmise, however, that they are not in any great hurry to 
do so, which helps neither Leica nor ourselves.

My own thoughts are (and, I stress, these are only my thoughts, not 
anything official, nor even rumoured, from within Leica) that Leica 
needs to hire two or three young, hot programmers and have them 
"reverse engineer" the DMR's code, much as Compaq did, years ago, for 
the IBM BIOS ( http://oldcomputers.net/compaqi.html ). That effort 
made the entire PC (read: IBM compatible) market possible.  It would 
take them a year, I am sure. But if they could improve on v1.2 they 
would be in great shape to build the firmware for the R10 and M9, for 
many of the routines are common to both the  M8 and DMR. (This 
assumes, of course, that Leica continue to use Kodak sensors.)

Is it going to happen?  Has it happened?  I don't know. But, if Leica 
are to succeed, they need, within this year, to start writing code 
for the R10. Leica need to get out from under this rock, and learn to 
do their own programming and quit relying on "partners".  And having 
some new programmers "cut their teeth" on the DMR would be a good 
start. For them, and for us!

>>Eventually, v1.2 was released and it is a big improvement over v1.1.
>
>That is not the general view, a lot of people have gone back to the 
>previous version.

Personally, I have found v1.2 a big improvement. When my DMR was 
recently replaced (due to a flood, at Leica) it came with v1.1 
installed.  I had v1.2 on it, within the hour. Nothing more I can 
say, on this point.

>In addition, the users without privilieged access could feel assured 
>that Leica is doing something to address our concerns. Please don't 
>misunderstand me, but the crux of your argument is that you and 
>nobody else have seen something i.e. the version 1.3 in action.

"Privileged access" is an interesting (and correct) term.  Funny, I'd 
only thought about this as "being told to keep my big yap shut".  :-)

Still, I understand your point. But, in some cases, confidential 
information is of absolute importance.  For instance, Leica's 
publicly stated goal with the R10 is to come up with a camera which 
will stand the dSLR world on it's head, much as the M3 did, in 
1954.  They are going to work, very hard, at coming out with a camera 
which will capture some of the Pro market, and wow the consumers, 
beyond belief.

It is in this area (not v1.3) that I've been privileged to gain some 
insight.  But, were Leica's competitors to discover their plans, they 
could 'borrow' them and have a competitive edge, by bringing them to 
market first.

Will Leica will succeed, in this goal? None of us will know until 6 
or 8 months after the introduction of the R10; when we see how well 
it sells, and to whom.

OTOH, I agree with you, that more transparency, with regard to v1.3, 
the IR issues with the M8, and other, more minor, issues would be 
beneficial, for Leica, in this global village. That, however, is 
their decision.

If I am lucky enough to learn something and I am asked to keep it 
confidential, then that is what I will do.  For me to do otherwise 
would be both foolish and beneath the standards of behavior which I 
set for myself.  Though, I must admit, sometimes balancing what I 
*want* to tell, with what I *can* tell, is both difficult and frustrating.

>In Journalism it not acceptable to use an unofficial source which 
>can not be independently corroborated. Now I have no reason not to 
>trust your statements, but I am sure you see my point.

Indeed, I do.  Which brings me to the source of this entire 
thread.  Mr. Gandy's post, on the LUC.  I'm not a member of the LUC, 
but I found this posted, as a quote, on another list.

>From: Stephen Gandy
>To: luc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:43:56 AM
>Subject: [Luc] R8 / R9 Digital
>
>there are serious rumors that all support for the digital R backs will
>soon be stopped
>not officially confirmed yet,
>but from a usually very reliable source
>
>Stephen

Though his source cannot be corroborated, he has been very clear that 
this is rumour... but when it has been reported, elsewhere, it has 
usually been done as "Steven Gandy said", and taken as gospel.

If there are to be any support issues, they likely arise from the 
delay and/or demise of v1.3.  If v1.3 becomes "permanently 
postponed", this should be laid at the feet of Imacon.  After all, 
Leica has DMRs in stock, and although they are not selling with the 
speed of the M8 or even as fast as they might like, they continue to 
sell. It is not in any firms interest to discontinue support for a 
product which sells well, which has, over all, presented few service 
issues and for which the replacement product is two years out.

Of course, there will come a day when DMR firmware support is 
discontinued.... but Leica will continue to repair them, for many 
years after that.  I would imagine that there will be no further 
firmware updates, after the R10 is introduced, unless the similarity 
of the two, internally, allows R10 firmware to run with little or no 
change, on the DMR.  That, however, will not cause existing DMRs to 
stop working, and they will continue to make fine photographs for 
many years, after that.

>I wholeheartedly agree with you. One hopes they are listening to the 
>lists and will try to incorporate as much of our suggestions as 
>possible. My point was simply that the lack of communication 
>regarding the v1.3 leads us -the customers- to think that the 
>R-series as such is in jeopardy.

A couple of points, here...

[1] I understand that they do monitor the major forums... Fred 
Miranda, RFF, LUG, LEG and, I believe, even our humble LRflex 
list.  However, it is company policy never comment. This policy is, I 
believe, adhered to by all major camera makers with regard to their 
user forums.  They do not contribute, because (a) it would consume 
vast amounts of time to have someone respond to every relevant thread 
and (b) too many of the statements might be considered factory policy 
when they were, in fact, not.  But they do listen.  Do they read 
every post? I doubt it.  But they do pop in, every now and again... 
of this I'm pretty sure.

[2] Less than 6 months ago, I was worried, not about the demise of 
the R series, but of Leica, itself.  With the purchase of Leica, by 
ACM, this is now very unlikely.  Steven Lee has a huge task ahead of 
him, to cure the current M8 woes, and bring the R10 successfully to 
market, while changing a corporate culture and making much of what 
Leica does much more efficient.  Mr. Lee has the proven track record 
to do this (aside from being a long time R user, starting with, if I 
recall correctly, the SL2). See:
http://www.leica-corporate.com/investor_relations/board/  Moreover, 
ACM has the required deep pockets to see the project through.

Leica are committed to the DMR and R10, for unlike the original Leitz 
family, they believe in the SLR, and understand the need to have a 
good, marketable SLR in their lineup, if the firm is to 
succeed.  That being said, should the R10 be a flop, in the 
marketplace, it will, I think, be the last R series camera we see. 
(Note: this last bit is my speculation, only.)

>>The DMR has put a joy back in my photography that has not existed 
>>for many years.  If it's a "white elephant", that's just fine with me.
>
>I know David, I have watched your work as well as Doug's work with 
>much interest and I am getting there. Kodak dropping Kodachrome 200 
>isn't making the decision to switch to digital more difficult. Talk 
>about a company with an ability to alienate its customers...

Sadly, I think Kodak, and other film makers, are simply responding to 
the sales curve of film.  For a long time, it was thought that the 
huge base of film cameras already out there would be the salvation of 
film.  But those cameras are languishing in closets while their 
owners are heading out to the stores for new digi models.  Film, like 
vacuum tubes, will not go away, for a very long time.  But the 
selection and availability will sharply decrease.

Last fall, I was in the local Pro dealer's shop, in Cork, 
Ireland.  He had two rolls of Neopan and about 6 each of a couple of 
two Fuji colour print emulsions.  Nothing else.  And that, alone, 
tells the story.   I think, within a few years, what film you can 
still get will come by mail, from a few specialist dealers.

Meanwhile, digital will continue to improve with each generation.

If the mythical R10 comes out with an 18+ megapixel sensor and is no 
larger than the present R8/9 (without DMR), I'll be first in line to 
buy one!  The Nikon scans of my negatives are at 4000dpi, so that's 
4000x6000 pixels or 24 megapixels. And I can see the difference them 
and the 10 megapixel DMR, in an 8x12" print!

Until digital cameras become close to that, film will still have the 
advantage.  The problem is, other than a few advanced hobbyists and 
some of the pros, nobody cares!

Sorry for the long ramblings... I'll quit now!

Cheers!



---

David Young,
Logan Lake, CANADA

Wildlife Photographs: http://www.telyt.com/
Personal Web-pages: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt





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