[LRflex] Re: DM-R Adventure

Hi Doug:  No argument at all concerning anything that you say.  Obviously, 
you, David, Alan, Bill, and the other
DMR users are in a position to teach us all.  I have no knowledge of the 
DMR, and very little knowledge of the nuts and bolts of "Digital 
Photography". However, the question remains, and should be asked:  Did the 
original purchasers of the DMR at the $5,000 price receive Beta units, and 
if so, were they told?  Now that the price has been increased $500-1000, do 
the newer models have all of the "fixes", or are some of the later higher 
priced models also in Beta testing?  Another question if I might:  Do firm 
ware updates tend to fix "all" of the discovered problems in a digital 
camera, i.e., will there be a firm ware "fix" for the problems Alan and 
David experienced?  Do the digital camera bodies have to be sent back for 
"updating"?

I am certain the C and N have had their own set of problems with their 
cameras, and I am not out to "bash" Leica.  I only find it rather 
interesting that the original DMR models might now be classified as Beta 
cameras.  Perhaps all newer model digital cameras at the time of their 
introduction should be sold with the Beta designation?  Perhaps the new 
digital M should carry the designation of Leica M Digital Beta with the 
relevant caveats included in the instructions?  At a reported price of 
almost $5,000 for the new digital M, what constitutes full disclosure to 
potential buyers?  Should such buyers be offered a discounted price for 6-12 
months while the "bugs" are being worked out, and fixed?

I want to repeat that my questions and comments are not meant to be 
inflammatory ,or demeaning to Leica,  or the DMR. Indeed, continued thanks 
to all of the DMR users who take the time to post their experiences, both 
pro and con, with the DMR.  We are all in your debt.

Elliot
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Douglas Herr" <telyt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: [LRflex] Re: DM-R Adventure


> Mine (a used demo unit) has been working well, aside from known
> firmware 1.1 bugs.  1.2 fixes most of the bugs but adds a few new ones
> of its own.  I'll wait for 1.3.  Being in the software business I'm not
> surprised by bugs, the wonder is that there aren't more.  C and N have
> had their share of bugs too, even on their multi-kilobuck products.
> Perfection is an invention of marketing people, to be planted in our
> heads by whatever means possible.
>
> Doug Herr
> Birdman of Sacramento
> http://www.wildlightphoto.com
>
> On Apr 18, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Dr. Puritz wrote:
>
>> HI Jerry:  I had no idea that David and Alan were, in effect, doing
>> Beta
>> testing.  Nevertheless, the DMR is released at $6,000 now.  Has the
>> current
>> DMR been changed in any way from the ones that our two esteemed
>> members were
>> using?  Are we to assume that earlier models of the DMR, i.e., those
>> that
>> were selling originally at $5,000, were also "Beta units"?  If so,
>> were the
>> original units sold with such a designation?
>>
>> Elliot
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jerry Lehrer" <jerryleh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:01 PM
>> Subject: [LRflex] Re: DM-R Adventure
>>
>>
>>> Elliot,
>>>
>>> One must remember they bought those new DMRs as Beta testers. That
>>> is why they got them so cheaply for 5 kilobucks each.  When Leica
>>> fully
>>> perfects them and they are bug free, they will cost a lot more than
>>> $5000.
>>>
>>> I would wager that Leica that Leica could not afford to internally
>>> test
>>> and
>>> develop a complex product on their own. Unlike airplanes and autos,
>>> they
>>> can have the first users uncover the problems. And the first users are
>>> falling
>>>
>>> over themselves to get in line to buy one at "list" price.
>>>
>>> Y'know, come to think of it, even commercial aircraft develop problems
>>> in the first years of operation.  My 50 years of aerospace
>>> engineering has
>>> shown me that.  Camera testing is a lot less hazardous!
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> "Dr. Puritz" wrote:
>>>
>>>> David and Alan:  You both appear to be remarkably patient.  One might
>>>> have
>>>> expected an outburst of four letter words after spending 5,000 bucks
>>>> and
>>>> having such problems.
>>>>
>>>> Alan:  Sorry to know of your problems.  How bothersome to travel to a
>>>> special location, spend the time and money to set up for a special
>>>> shoot,
>>>> and have the camera fail.  I am a very big supporter of Leica
>>>> Camera, but
>>>> such problems with a "new unit" must make us wonder who is in charge
>>>> in
>>>> Solms.  To say that one is surprised would be understating the
>>>> situation.
>>>>
>>>> Are you contemplating returning the DMR?
>>>>
>>>> Elliot
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Young" <telyt@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:46 PM
>>>> Subject: [LRflex] Re: DM-R Adventure
>>>>
>>>>> Alan Siegel moaned:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The camera was mounted on a tripod and after 5 or 6 shots nothing
>>>>>> happened when I pushed the shutter button, except I noticed the EV
>>>>>> reading on the back would show EV 0.0 after I pushed the shutter
>>>>>> button. I had plenty of battery power left, but I tried the
>>>>>> following steps to get it working again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I turned it off and on several times,I recharged the battery, and
>>>>>> replaced the SD card with another, nothing I did made any
>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> <<snip>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  My concern is will it happen again, and if so, how often.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Mornin' Alan!
>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot say that I've had your situation, but it is definitely a
>>>>> contact problem.  I say this because on several occasions, during
>>>>> "show and tell", I've popped the back off to show how you can still
>>>>> put film in the R8.  When I put it back together, it fails to work
>>>>> about 2/3rds of the time!  Doing as you did, just turning it off,
>>>>> reseating the back and (often) winding the film lever, has always
>>>>> got
>>>>> it going again.  I've never had it fail, once working, until I did
>>>>> 'show and tell" again, or was removing the back to clean the sensor
>>>>> (like you, with a blower, no brush).  Then, one or two 're-seats"
>>>>> seems to do the trick.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to experiment with some contact preservative I have (about
>>>>> $75 for 1 fl. oz.) and will report to the list as to whether it
>>>>> makes
>>>>> any difference or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to hear of your problem, but inquiring minds want to
>>>>> know...  who IS your dealer?  He sounds like a gem!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>> David Young,
>>>>> Logan Lake, CANADA
>>>>>
>
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