RE: forgot to mention AD HOMINEM ARGUMENT

DEAR MARK,
        Your engineers weren't artists.  Search for your own heart in your
photos...then you won't consider my ideas "nebulous".   Don't concern
yourself with my criticism.
                BOB

-----Original Message-----
From: leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mark Bohrer
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 5:11 PM
To: leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: forgot to mention AD HOMINEM ARGUMENT

Bob:
My photo resume lacks magazine covers and traveling one-man shows 
because after getting a BSEE in three years and an MSEE, both from the 
University of Illinois (at the time the number three engineering school 
in the country), I spent 25 years designing analog and mixed-signal ICs 
with sales in the tens of millions of dollars for National 
Semiconductor, AMD, PMI/Analog Devices, Micro Linear, and Linear 
Technology, with three patents in analog signal synthesis and voltage 
reference design. Among those million sellers was the first 100BASE-TX 
Ethernet interface circuit, sold to Cisco, Hewlett-Packard, and 3Com, 
among many other OEM suppliers. Maybe you've heard of Cisco and HP?

I will bet you'd disregard criticism from that drunk in the street. Like 
it or not, my experience writing ad copy tells me people accept 
statements from credible sources and disregard them from non-credible 
ones. Attorneys make use of this to discredit testimony of opposing 
counsel's witnesses all the time.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about entires in the Barnack 
competition. Whether or not it has merit or accuracy is another story. 
It didn't have to include general put-downs of photos shown on this list.

And could you be more specific in what you consider 'heart'? A touch of 
the eternal and divine? If I'd been that nebulous when I directed my 
engineers, we'd have never released anything to production.

Mark Bohrer, MSEE
Active Light Photography
www.mountain-and-desert.com

BOB KISS wrote:
>
> *DEAR LIST,*
>
> * I forgot to mention the 5 years I spent double majoring in Photo 
> Science and Photo Illustration at RIT.again, not that it matters at 
> all regarding the validity of my criticism.*
>
> * BOB*
>
> * *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> *On Behalf Of *BOB KISS
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:46 PM
> *To:* leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* AD HOMINEM ARGUMENT
>
> *DEAR LIST,*
>
> * I guess I need to remind some on this list of the concept of an "ad 
> hominem" argument. This means that many people will try to disparage a 
> statement, idea, or criticism because they can criticize the personal 
> attributes, competence, or talent of the person who said it. The point 
> is that the statement, idea, or criticism may, indeed, be valid even 
> if the person saying it can be easily put down. If a stinky drunk 
> lying in a gutter makes a valid criticism of one of your photos, does 
> his failed life make his observation less valid? "Frankly, Scarlett, I 
> don't give a damn" what you think of me or my photos.I believe my 
> criticism has merit and is certainly no less valid than the visual 
> insensitivity of those who criticized the Barnack photos. I also don't 
> care who Barnack is.the photos on that site have more life in them 
> than a lot of what I have seen on this list. *
>
> * >From the last few e-mails I have read, I feel I have hit a nerve 
> and the reaction reminds me of Hamlet, "Me thinks the lady doth 
> protest too much!" *
>
> * Now for those who presume to know anything about me, the very 
> concise summary on my past work on my very out of date website doesn't 
> even scratch the surface of my resume. I have worked and continue to 
> work for international advertising agencies, major international 
> magazines, and international clients. I shot my first national 
> magazine cover in 1972 and I have shot 8 covers of Interview Magazine, 
> 9 covers of Essence Magazine, and I continue to photograph world 
> famous musicians. My work has appeared in, to name just a few, Paris 
> Vogue, German Vogue, British Vogue, Italian Men's Bazaar, etc. I have 
> taught photography at ICP and guest lectured at FIT, NYU, and The Art 
> (is it Center or Institute? This was in the late 80s) in LA. My photos 
> have appeared in half a dozen high profile books on beauty, fashion, 
> celebrities, and photography. I have three years of training in film 
> making at NYU and 6 years of training in theater directing from 
> Masterworks Laboratory Theater. *
>
> *Because I got tired of the madness of the NYC fashion and advertising 
> industries I moved to Barbados in 1993 and have concentrated on 
> selling my fine art photography since 1996. My prints are in private 
> and public collections on three continents.*
>
> *So, if you think you are going to impress me with one cover, or 
> publication in one or two books you are seriously mistaken. What will 
> impress me is some HEART IN YOUR PHOTOS. Some pulsating, breathing soul! *
>
> ***********BUT THE POINT IS THAT NONE OF THIS MATTERS! My criticism in 
> response to the visually insensitive comments regarding the images on 
> the Barnack site IS valid just because IT IS ACCURATE.not because of 
> who I am or what I have done. If you don't like it, use the delete 
> button as I do with many of your photos and comments. Fair is fair!*
>
> * While being fair, some of the photos of birds have a touch of the 
> eternal and divine in them. The photos of those children in the 
> hospital will haunt and encourage me for the rest of my life. You have 
> MANY excellent examples of good work on this list. Why not ALL aspire 
> to reach THAT SAME LEVEL with your own chosen subjects or genre of 
> work? If you put the same energy into your work that you put into 
> invective against me, imagine what you could accomplish!*
>
> * Now, as suggested off list by one of the more enlightened members of 
> this list, I shall retire to looking and, in an effort to be gracious, 
> I will compliment those photos I think are excellent and simply make 
> no comment otherwise.*
>
> * CHEERS!*
>
> * BOB*
>
> * *
>
> *Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ *
>
> * *
>
> *"Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going 
> to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi*
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3966 (20090326) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>


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