Re: OSKAR KARNAC (SP) REVISITED

Bob,

the comment - which was mine - remains, is justified and is valid.
As to not taking it in return - I've had my share, as have others here, of shots that have been relegated to the round file under the desk by our betters and through the honest criticism of our friends and peers.
As to handing it out - technical criticism where technical criticism is due. Creative content is a different matter and open to discusssion, which is often heated.
At the end of the day, however, and I think almost everyone here will agree, we are all part of an open and honest learning (and teaching) process that is of enormous advantage and thought provoking to us all.
My criticism of the quality of the entries to the OBP refers to the often forced attempt to be "arty" or controversial very obvious in many of the entries - in short, many of the portfolios are simply neither honest nor authentic. Pushing the limits in photography does not, in my books, involve ridiculous, out of true shooting, wierd perspectives and the use of precision equipment to create something that could barely pass as Lomography.
There are many photographers who seek to make up for lacking creativity by purchasing expensive equipment in the hope that their "Photography" will improve.
The camera and lenses are tools for recording what you see or imagine in your mind's eye. If you are half-blind in that eye, no camera, however precise or expensive, is going to change anything. A good photographer can deliver whether using a pinhole camera, the bottom of a coke bottle as a lens or a cheap camera with a built in handle to throw it away with.
Leica certainly provides technical precision and excellence, but creativity and "eye" is another kettle of fish
I'm not sure what YOUR criticism is based on, but, here in Germany there is a saying that one should sweep one's own doorstep before complaining that someone elses's is dirty.
There are excellent photographers in almost every creative genre I can think of on this and other lists to which many here subscribe. There are others who think they are not good enough and post here to gather (and obviously do use) experience from seasoned and expert photographers, printers, image processors computer specialists and other technical experts, both professional and non-professional.
Back to handing it out, and whether we "mean it" when we comment - personally, I found your mail rather disappointing; even more so after I had viewed what you offer in the way of examples of your work.
I had thought of presenting links to shots from those you so arbitrarily criticise that are almost identical (but better in execution and vision) to those found on your website, but I just lack the time for what is, in retrospect, perhaps a rather pointless endeavour. 

Douglas

BOB KISS wrote:

DEAR DOUG,
        No I haven't had the time to post comments.  I either forward what I
think is special (e.g., many of your links are forwarded to my former
sister-in-law who is an ornithologist) or I delete them. I was also reacting to someone's unjustified comment that the images 
on the Barnack (thanks for the correction) site showed that buying an
expensive Leica didn't guarantee that the purchasing photographer had
talent.  It was this self serving statement that has motivated me to say
that, though I never voiced it before, I feel exactly the way about many of
the images on this list.  I believe that one shouldn't hand it out if they
can't take it in return.  An open mind is a good start.
        Sorry to be the devil's advocate but it was some of the insensitive
reactions to the very live and personal images on the Barnack site from
posters on this list that motivated me to break my silence.
                CHEERS!
BOB 
-----Original Message-----
From: leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of wildlightphoto@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM
To: leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: OSKAR KARNAC (SP) REVISITED

Bob, have you posted any comments about specific photos posted on this
list?  BTW you are correct to question your spelling, the name is Barnack,
not KARNAC.

Doug Herr
Birdman of Sacramento
http://www.wildlightphoto.com

Original Message:
-----------------
From: BOB KISS bobkiss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:58:49 -0400
To: leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: OSKAR KARNAC (SP) REVISITED


DEAR MARK,      
        It isn't a question of subject matter.  It is a question of the
extent to which the photographer digs deep inside to find a personal vision.
My statement was also a reaction to someone's comment that the images posted
on this list were "much better" than what was on the Karnac competition
site.  That site had many genres of subject matter but the vast majority of
them seemed to be pulsing with life, beating hearts, and very personal
vision/commitment on the part of the photographers. I shoot mostly 8X10 and make platinum palladium prints so I don't 
have too much recent Leica work.  I will happily post one of my favorite
Leica shots soon so that you can comment. CHEERS! BOB 
-----Original Message-----
From: leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mark Bohrer
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 2:30 PM
To: leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: OSKAR KARNAC (SP) REVISITED
I used to like the band that would perform locally as Soft White Underbelly. You knew them as Blue Oyster Cult.
You photograph edgy fine art. Somebody else shoots slices of everyday life where they live, or where they travel. Others shoot wildlife behavior. Still others shoot events with handheld flash.
It's all good. You filter your seeing with what's between your ears, but it's all good. 

When are you going to post links to your recent work for comment?

Mark Bohrer
Active Light Photography
www.mountain-and-desert.com



BOB KISS wrote:

*DEAR LIST,*
* I find the Karnac (sp?) competition photos on the Leica site to finally be some images with beating hearts and blood flowing through veins. They have an edge of personal vision. *
*Except for the photos made by the person on this list who has published the book on child hospital patients I have repeatedly had the feeling that the most of photos on this list were made for postcards, NOT as personal statements. There have been many pretty pictures, most of which were trying to look as nice as well known images by the "greats". Very few images seem to have the edge of dangerously personal visions. Very few seem to take the risk of exposing the tender under bellies of your own souls and your intimate reactions to the world around you.*
* Every posting on this list says, "Comments welcome". Let's see if you meant it!* 

* CHEERS!*

* BOB *

* *

*Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ *

* *
*"Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi*
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