Re: Leica - starter camera

Mark
Aperture priority (a la M7) would certainly be nice, as given my choice, I will usually shoot that way. But most of my Medium format cameras don't even have a meter so that is not the prime consideration.
Another thought, is that the group has often pointed out obvious Leica fakes (obvious to the group anyway). Was the M6 ever copied by non-Leica makers? I certainly would not be able to spot a fake at this point unless it was very obvious.
Most of the copies that have been discussed have been of older Leica's. I know that some of you actually collect fakes but I am looking for a "user" camera so I would obviously prefer the real deal.
Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bohrer" <lurchl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: Leica - starter camera


Phil:
I've used M3, M6, M6 TTL and M7 cameras. The M7's aperture-priority exposure automation helps you concentrate on the picture without distractions, and works well for spontaneous opportunities when there's no time to think about exposure.

M7s also relegate you to two mechanical shutter speeds (1/60 and 1/125) when the batteries die, and cost more since they're a current model.

The M6 family is all-mechanical with the addition of the TTL meter so all you lose is the meter when the battery dies. As Nathan pointed out, the original M6 comes in only 0.72 viewfinder magnification so the bright-line viewfinder frames for 90mm and 135mm lenses are small.

The M3 has frames for 50mm, 90mm and 135mm lenses only and viewfinder magnification of 0.92 - almost life-size so you can keep both eyes open when you shoot. It also has the longest equivalent rangefinder base for the most accurate focusing of any Leica. This is important when you're using a 50mm Noctilux at f/1 or 90mm Summicron at f/2 up close: no depth of field requires very accurate focusing.

That said, the 0.72 viewfinder with its frames for 28mm (M4-P and later models), 35mm, 50mm, 75mm (M4-P and later), 90mm and 135mm (M4 and later) gives you the most flexibility in lens choice and accurate-enough focusing for almost any subject, lens and distance. This is the finder magnification available in all Leica M cameras except the M3.

No one mentioned the M5, first Leica M with through the lens metering. It was bigger than other M-cameras, lacked the 1-second shutter speed and showed the selected shutter speed in the viewfinder, the only M-camera that does. The shutter speed dial protrudes slightly beyond the front of the camera, making it easy to set with your eye on the viewfinder. I've seen them go for as little as $900, though $1000-$1500 is more usual.

At 12:25 AM 3/27/2005, you wrote: 
Phil,

I second those who have recommended an M6. It came in a few variations:

- the original, starting 1984, was non-TTL and had 0.72 viewfinder magnification
- in the late 1990s, models with 0.58 and 0.85 (the latter sometimes called HM for High Magnification) appeared, to accomodate those who shot mostly with wide lenses (28mm/35mm) or long ones (90mm/135mm), respectively. The magnification is marked in very small letters on the grey strip under the viewfinder window. The 0.85 lacks framelines for the 28mm lens.
- also in the late 1990s, the TTL models appeared. The easiest way to tell them apart is a slightly different script type and a larger shutter speed dial.

Any of these will serve you well. I have recently converted to mainly digital shooting, but the one Leica M I kept is a 0.85 non-TTL M6.

More recent models include the M7 which features an electronic shutter and aperture priority, and the MP which is basically an M6 but with a higher price and stupid rewind crank a la the 1960s. I would stay away from those unless someone offers you one at a knock-down price.

The older models (M3, M4) are OK too, but aside from the fiddlier loading system, they lack the light meter, and, being much older than an M6, are more likely to need a CLA. Especially with an M3, you would not be saving very much, if anything at all, compared to a recent M6.

And finally, any Leica M lens will fit any Leica M camera (with some minor exceptions for wide angles on the M5, but I would not recommend that one in any event).

Nathan

Phil McOrmond wrote:

So the M6 is easier to load and is a relatively new model.. The other difference is TTL vs non-TTL. I assume the later models have the TTL.
Is there any sub-model designation for the TTL.
I have read about the older models now and the loading does seem like a bit more trouble but no worse than loading a medium format camera as far as I can see. I have an old Kodak Autographic from around WW1 that uses a similar loading system to the Leica. Unforunately 127 film is not too common although I do have some.
I think I could put up with either system of loading. Is there a differnce in the lenses or are thay interchangeable across the model range? The lens designations are relatively complex. How many camera companies actually give their lenses names and not just let them be known by their f-stop and focal length?
This is starting to get more nteresting as I go along but it sounds like an M6 might be the one. Are there models to avoid other than due to rarity/expense? I am not sure I would want to be regularly using anything costing more than a couple of thousand outside of the house YMMV.
Thanks for the feedback so far.
Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffery Smith" <jls@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: Leica - starter camera

There is something intangible that I like better about the non-TTL. Is
it a tiny bit less tall?

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com



-----Original Message-----
From: leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:leica-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Rei Shinozuka
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:58 PM
To: leica@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Leica - starter camera

i think the m6 in any of its guises is a good camera, and in the past
couple of years, prices have drifted into the $1,250 to $1,500 range.
the m6 is relatively new (it was made for about 20 years starting
from 1984), has built-in metering, and there are many on the used
market.
i personally like the proportions and handling of the m6 classic, but
the
m6 TTL is also a nice camera.

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Mark Bohrer
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