Re: update or new version of jfw?
- From: "Angel" <angel238@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:44:43 -0400
He lives at home, and has no job.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark" <mwittig@xxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> good lord hank how do you live on that i spend more on lunches than you
get
> a month
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hank" <hank@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
>
>
> tell me what income your on.
> ssi only gives me 564
> and read my posting from earlier I posted the price fs wants jaws for
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James" <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:31 AM
> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
>
>
> > Woo. I'm getting $700 a month, and JFW standard with SMA included is
> > roughly $700. So, thank the gods for creditcards.
> > James
> >
> > At 11:28 AM 10/22/2004, you wrote:
> >> JAWS 9X - JAWS 5 Standard for 9x/Me/XP Home $895.00
> >>and what income you getting?
> >>mines only 564 and after rent and bills and stuff and the usual I get
> >>about
> >>100 dollars or 150 or so a month.
> >>and as I also stated I was luck enuph that the agency helped helped with
> >>me.
> >>take care
> >>hank
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "James" <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:16 AM
> >>Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >>
> >>
> >> > $900? Where do you buy from? Mine cost 6. And yes, I'm on a fixed
> >> > income
> >> > and can afford it.
> >> > James
> >> >
> >> > At 11:13 AM 10/22/2004, you wrote:
> >> >>if fs lowered the price would more customers purchase it?
> >> >>just curious
> >> >>people on a fix income and the average blind person can't get jaws
and
> >> >>when
> >> >>the blind agencies won't get them for the blind person then there
> >> >>screwed.
> >> >>I am lucky mine helped me but I no firneds who were not so lucky.
> >> >>the 900 bucks is personally a out ragious price small market or not.
> >> >>just my 2 cents.
> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >>From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 4:35 AM
> >> >>Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Jim and all,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Three things.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1> there's no reason the bugs as they usually are cannot be fixed
in
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > new
> >> >> > release along with adding some new features.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2> you said there used to be a company. Why do you think it is
> >> >> > gone?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 3> You talk about adding support, but where is the money going to
> >> >> > come
> >> >> > from
> >> >> > to do this? I'm not saying you are rong or that we should not
have
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > better
> >> >> > product, but the money to do the things you suggest needs to be
> >> >> > there
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > by
> >> >> > and large in today's at market, it is not there. We need support
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > instance to a much wider array of tools than we have, but there is
> >> >> > only
> >> >> > support for applications for which there is money provided.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 6:18 AM
> >> >> > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi, well you can have working and fast. There was a company that
I
> >> >> > will =
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > name here that did just that. Yes there were bugs but the bugs
got
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > fixed
> >> >> > quick. New features came along all the time and new releaces
> >> >> > happened
> >> >> > offten fixing bubug that came up and adding features when needed.
> >> >> > As =
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > said quite a lot of the time new bugs were interduced but we
already
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > that problem as it is. For example there were no problems with
the
> >> >> > type =
> >> >> > key
> >> >> > function in jaws 5.0 there is now. Lots of bugs were fixed. But
if
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > lot
> >> >> > of these new features and bugs were realeced to the user as they
> >> >> > were =
> >> >> > coded
> >> >> > they would have been reported faster and fewer changes would have
> >> >> > been
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > maid
> >> >> > in the mean time. As for jaws 6.0 we are not ready for a major
> >> >> > upgraid
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > yet.
> >> >> > To many things need to be done and fixed so updates to the program
> >> >> > about =
> >> >> > 5
> >> >> > or six I would think need to come out in the mean time corecting =
> >> >> > problems.
> >> >> > If you ask me 6 should come out about the time ms releces the next
=
> >> >> > version
> >> >> > of windows. It should come out on the same day as that version
and
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > should be able to anounce support for that version. In the mean
> >> >> > time =
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > should be working on delivering the things they said they were
going
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > deliver and fix what needs fixing. Also some one needs to get on
> >> >> > this
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > list
> >> >> > and all the other lists for jaws and start reading the mail that
> >> >> > comes
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > in so
> >> >> > that they can aid the users and add the remarks to the data base.
> >> >> > This
> >> >> > company I will not name here did just that and I my self saw the
> >> >> > things
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > brought to the list being fixed and a lot of my own ideas went in
to
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > program. Why? Because they heard there users. We as users need
to
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > start
> >> >> > making noise we need to tell them that we want to be heard. We
need
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > tell
> >> >> > them that we will shell out our money but we want fast and good
> >> >> > servus
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > more
> >> >> > bank for our buck. We want a tol free number for support. The
> >> >> > other
> >> >> > company I speak of had it. We want more updates with more things
> >> >> > fixed. =
> >> >> > One
> >> >> > every lets say 6 weeks. Even it if is a new script added on the
jfw
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > lite
> >> >> > web sight is tested by a tech and is desided it works well to
> >> >> > provide =
> >> >> > access
> >> >> > to a program then it should be a part of jaws. There should be a
> >> >> > page
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > the fs web sight for users to add there scripts for evaluation. If
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > provide access to a program at all they should be included with
> >> >> > jaws.
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > Now I
> >> >> > know what you are going to say then they are going to have to
> >> >> > support =
> >> >> > said
> >> >> > scripts. Yep that is right. So some one had better be looking at
=
> >> >> > thoughs
> >> >> > scripts very cairfully. Or if they do not wish to support that
> >> >> > script
> >> >> > because they did not write it then an email address to the person
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > did
> >> >> > write it should be provided. Every support list for jaws every one
> >> >> > of =
> >> >> > them
> >> >> > should be listed on the fs web sight. And articals from this list
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > answer users questions should be added to the support bass. Now as
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > autherasation copy protection is a bad idea always has been always
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > be.
> >> >> > The begest problem I have with jaws is copy protection. I in the
> >> >> > course =
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > using my pc have lost keys have had them damaged all kinds of
things
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > open
> >> >> > book uses a key number system window eyes does conect out loud
does
> >> >> > jaws
> >> >> > should also. I do not like wpa I am sure I am not going to like
> >> >> > this =
> >> >> > new
> >> >> > internet key system. As you can see we would be living the best
of
> >> >> > all
> >> >> > worlds here we would have fast access using the free sorce system
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > scripts updated as needed by fs. We would have the bugs fixed in
a
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > timely
> >> >> > manor. We would have the support we deserv. We would have a
voice
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > creation of the program we use every day. David p. makes a good
> >> >> > point
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > when
> >> >> > he says that jaws for now is a head of the rest. It is. How long
> >> >> > can
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > stay there with out the voice of the user. Remember windows it
self
> >> >> > has
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > this
> >> >> > problem ms is not hearing the user. And this is why linix bassed
> >> >> > systems =
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > becoming more and more the rage. I want to be heard I want my
voice
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > count I am sure you do also. If it is not soon fs is going to
find
> >> >> > that =
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > is no longer ahead. Of course everyone but mean seems to be happy
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > status quo here.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > Behalf
> >> >> > Of James
> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:20 PM
> >> >> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You can't fix what you don't know is wrong. As I said in another
> >> >> > email
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > just=20
> >> >> > posted, it may take until the next version to find a bug. IF they
=
> >> >> > followed=20
> >> >> > your advice, we'd have a supremely buggy version of JFW 6.0 with a
> >> >> > less=20
> >> >> > than stable internet authorization, working anything but reliably
> >> >> > with=20
> >> >> > remote access, and freezing or just plain not cooperating on some
of
> >> >> > the =
> >> >> >
> >> >> > more advanced java-based websites. Then you'll be complaining
> >> >> > because=20
> >> >> > they're pushing things out to quickly, and not taking time to make
> >> >> > sure=20
> >> >> > things work before they're released. Then, you'll be looking for
> >> >> > another =
> >> >> >
> >> >> > screenreader, because this one's just plain unreliable. I say
again,
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > take=20
> >> >> > your pick. You can't have working, and fast.
> >> >> > James,
> >> >> > List Admin
> >> >> >
> >> >> > At 11:08 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:
> >> >> >>Here here right now is what I say and as for your remark about
> >> >> >>talking=20
> >> >> >>=3D about it here if we talk about it here maybe some of us note I
> >> >> >>have
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>already =3D done
> >> >> >>so will speak to fs regularly and voice the fact that we want it
> >> >> >>right
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > =3D
> >> >> >>now
> >> >> >>and maybe more betas will get posted and maybe updates will happen
> >> >> >>more
> >> >> >>often. =3D20
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> >> >> >>=3D
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>Behalf Of James
> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM
> >> >> >>To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>But, since this isn't a Freedom Scientific list, debating about
> >> >> >>it=20
> >> >> >>here=3D20 won't do much except make everyone angrier at the
> >> >> >>situation.=20
> >> >> >>Truth is,=3D20 they're doing what they can with what they have.
> >> >> >>Every =
> >> >> > new=20
> >> >> >>version that=3D20 comes out has something new that some want, and
=
> >> >> > leaves=20
> >> >> >>some others =3D wanting=3D20 something else. People wanted to be
> >> >> >>able =
> >> >> > to=20
> >> >> >>use JFW without an external=3D20 synthasizer, or for that matter,
=
> >> >> > without=20
> >> >> >>any additional synthasizing=3D20 hardware, period. They finally
got
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > that=20
> >> >> >>in version 3.0. Then FS needed =3D to=3D20
> >> >> >>make it work with Windows Millennium. Most of that was done by
3.5,
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > the=3D20
> >> >> >>rest by 4.0. The demand presented itself for Windows XP. 4.02
> >> >> >>covered =
> >> >> > =3D
> >> >> >>that.=3D20
> >> >> >>The demand presented itself to work with some of today's more =
> >> >> > advanced=3D20
> >> >> >>website technology, which prompted 4.5. 4.51 was released when
some
> >> >> >>=3D
> >> >> >>parts=3D20
> >> >> >>of tat technology were upgraded slightly, including MSN Messenger.
=
> >> >> > And=3D20
> >> >> >>that's just a small example.
> >> >> >>The absolute truth? If FS waited to release all of these features
in
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > one =3D
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>major version, we'd still be sitting on version 4.0 waiting for
> >> >> >>things=20
> >> >> >>=3D like=3D20 increased functionality with Windows XP. We have to
> >> >> >>keep
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > up=20
> >> >> >>as best we =3D can=3D20
> >> >> >>with the mainstream market, because that's what this and other =
> >> >> > products=3D20
> >> >> >>deal with. Unfortunately, if you keep up, you don't do it right
and
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > you=3D20
> >> >> >>have problems. IF you don't keep up, you do it right and you have
> >> >> >>=3D
> >> >> >>different=3D20
> >> >> >>problems. Window Eyes is a perfect example of this. Sure, they
> >> >> >>already
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > =3D
> >> >> >>have=3D20
> >> >> >>remote access integrated into their software. But, is it done
right?
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > Not =3D
> >> >> >>if=3D20
> >> >> >>you go by some of the comments made on this list. Could it be done
> >> >> >>=3D
> >> >> >>better?=3D20
> >> >> >>Most definitely. But, again, users of Window Eyes would be waiting
> >> >> >>for
> >> >> >>=
> >> >> > =3D
> >> >> >>it,=3D20
> >> >> >>just like users of JFW are. The real question is, which would you
> >> >> >>=3D
> >> >> >>prefer?=3D20
> >> >> >>Right, or right now?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>James,
> >> >> >>List Admin
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>At 09:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:
> >> >> >> >But for someone else's money, get it right first. Whose money
> >> >> >> >is=20
> >> >> >> >worth=3D20 more?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Bruce
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >--
> >> >> >> >Bruce Toews
> >> >> >> >E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):=3D20=20
> >> >> >> >http://www.ogts.net For the best oldies anywhere visit=3D20=20
> >> >> >> >http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, jim grimsby wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > Well for my money get it out get it out fast and fix bugs
as=20
> >> >> >> > > they=3D20 come =3D3D up please and thank you!
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> > > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > > [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> >> >> >> > > On=3D20 =3D3D Behalf Of Bruce Toews
> >> >> >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 2:20 PM
> >> >> >> > > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > The reality is that FS is caught between a rock and a hard
> >> >> >> > > place=20
> >> >> >> > > in=3D20 =3D3D terms=3D3D20 of PR when it comes to release
> >> >> >> > > dates. =
> >> >> > Release=20
> >> >> >> > > a =3D
> >> >> >>product=3D20
> >> >> >> > > too soon, and =3D3D it's=3D3D20
> >> >> >> > > bug-ridden, and everyone whines about how they should have
> >> >> >> > > wated.=20
> >> >> >> > > =3D
> >> >> >>Wait =3D3D
> >> >> >> > > and=3D3D20
> >> >> >> > > try to deal with bugs, and everyone whines about how the
other
> >> >> >> > > guy
> >> >> >> > > =
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > =3D
> >> >> >>got =3D3D
> >> >> >> > > it=3D3D20
> >> >> >> > > out sooner, why can't they? There's no winning.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Bruce
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > --=3D3D20
> >> >> >> > > Bruce Toews
> >> >> >> > > E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web
> >> >> >> > > Site=20
> >> >> >> > > (including info on my weekly commentaries):=3D20 =
> >> >> > http://www.ogts.net=20
> >> >> >> > > =3D3D For the best oldies anywhere visit=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > > http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Chip Orange wrote:
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >> Well, being a software developer myself, I know that
> >> >> >> > >> release=20
> >> >> >> > >> dates=3D20 are =3D3D
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >> always a tug of war between when you want it ready and when
=
> >> >> > it=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >> is=3D3D20 really ready. Different companies have
differing=20
> >> >> >> > >> policies =3D
> >> >> >>as=3D20
> >> >> >> > >> to=3D3D20 exactly which wins in the struggle.
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >> Chip
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> > >>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D20=3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =3D3D
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >>> On Behalf Of hank
> >> >> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 3:06 PM
> >> >> >> > >>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >>> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> interesting they told me they didn't have a release date.
> >> >> >> > >>> funky
> >> >> >> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> > >>> From: "Troy Burnham" <tburnham@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> > >>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:30 AM
> >> >> >> > >>> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >> >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>>> A friend of mine called FS the other day and was told that
> >> >> >> > >>>> =3D
> >> >> >>a=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> new version,
> >> >> >> > >>>> probably 6.0, will be out around the end of the year
> >> >> >> > >>>> I=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> think it was. I
> >> >> >> > >>>> don't know what will be in it though or if that is
> >> >> >> > >>>> even=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >>>> accurate.=3D3D20 Troy
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>> On Thursday 10/21/2004 01:17 PM, Jarrod Jicha said:
> >> >> >> > >>>>> does anyone know or has anyone heard anything about=20
> >> >> >> > >>>>> when=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> either an update,
> >> >> >> > >>>>> or a new version of jfw is coming out? was just =3D
> >> >> >>wondering,=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> also, does
> >> >> >> > >>>>> anyone either know, or have they heard what will be in
=3D
> >> >> >>the=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> new version?
> >> >> >> > >>>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to =
> >> >> > jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >>>>> To=3D3D20 unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a
> >> >> >> > >>>>> message =
> >> >> > =3D
> >> >> >>to=3D3D20=3D20
> >> >> >> > >>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
=3D
> >> >> >>the=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> subject line.
> >> >> >> > >>>>> Archives located at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received
=3D
> >> >> >>from=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> the list, or
> >> >> >> > >>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> >> >> >> > >>>>> list.=3D20 Rather =3D3D
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>> To post a message to the list, send it to
jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >>>> =3D
> >> >> >>To=3D3D20=3D20
> >> >> >> > >>>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message=20
> >> >> >> > >>>> to=3D3D3D20=3D3D20 =3D
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > >>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> >> >> >> > >>>> the=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> subject line.
> >> >> >> > >>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received =3D
> >> >> >>from=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> the list, or=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> >> >> >> > >>>> list.=3D3D20 =3D
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > >>>> Rather=3D3D3D20 contact the list owner at=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >>>> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> --
> >> >> >> > >>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >>> =3D
> >> >> >>To=3D3D20=3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message=20
> >> >> >> > >>> to=3D3D3D20=3D3D20=3D20 jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the
> >> >> >> > >>> word=20
> >> >> >> > >>> unsubscribe in the=3D3D3D20 =3D
> >> >> >>=3D3D
> >> >> >> > > subject=3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> line. Archives located at:
> >> >> >> > >>> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received=20
> >> >> >> > >>> from=3D3D3D20 =3D
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > >>> the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post =3D
> >> >> >>them=3D3D3D20=3D20
> >> >> >> > >>> to the list. Rather contact the list owner
> >> >> >> > >>> at=3D3D3D20=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >>> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D3D3D20
> >> >> >> > >> --
> >> >> >> > >> To post a message to the list, send it to
jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> >> >> >> > >> To=3D3D20 =3D
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message
> >> >> >> > >> to=3D3D20=3D20
> >> >> >> > >> =
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > >> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
> >> >> >> > >> the=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >> subject=3D3D20 line. Archives located at:=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > >> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received
from=20
> >> >> >> > >> the=3D20 list,=3D3D20 or the way the list is being run, do
not
> >> >> >> > >> =
> >> >> > post=20
> >> >> >> > >> them to =3D
> >> >> >>the=3D20
> >> >> >> > >> list. Rather =3D3D
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > > --
> >> >> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
> >> >> > To=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=20
> >> >> >> > > subject=3D20 line. Archives located at:=20
> >> >> >> > > //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from =
> >> >> > the=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > > list, or =3D3D the way the list is being run, do not post
them
> >> >> >> > > to=20
> >> >> >> > > the=3D20 list. Rather contact =3D3D the list owner at=20
> >> >> >> > > jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > --
> >> >> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
> >> >> > To=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=20
> >> >> >> > subject=3D20 line.
> >> >> >> > > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from =
> >> >> > the=3D20=20
> >> >> >> > > list,
> >> >> >> > or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the
> >> >> >> > list.=20
> >> >> >> > Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >--
> >> >> >> >To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To=20
> >> >> >> >unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> >> >> >> >jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
subject
> >> >> >> >=
> >> >> > =3D
> >> >> >>line.
> >> >> >> >Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
the=20
> >> >> >> >list,=3D20 or the way the list is being run, do not post them to
> >> >> >> >the=20
> >> >> >> >list. Rather=3D20 contact the list owner at
> >> >> >> >jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>--
> >> >> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> >> >> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> >> >> >>subject=20
> >> >> >>line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> >> >>list,=20
> >> >> >>or =3D the way the list is being run, do not post them to the
> >> >> >>list.=20
> >> >> >>Rather contact =3D the
> >> >> >>list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>--
> >> >> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
=
> >> >> > line.
> >> >> >>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> >> >>list,=20
> >> >> >>or
> >> >> >>the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
> >> >> >>Rather=20
> >> >> >>contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> >> > line.
> >> >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> >> > list,
> >> >> > or =
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> >> >> > contact
> >> >> > =
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> >> > line.
> >> >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> >> > list,
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> >> >> > contact
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> >> > line.
> >> >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> >> > list,
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
Rather
> >> >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>
> >> >>--
> >> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> >>line.
> >> >>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >>
> >> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
> >> >>or
> >> >>the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> >> >>contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> > line.
> >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >
> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
> >> > or
> >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>--
> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> >>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>
> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
> >>the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> >>contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
the
> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact
the
> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact
the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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