RE: the Personal Computer was the greatest thing ever invented for the Blind

  • From: "Harmony Neil" <harmonylm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:20:25 +0100

Know what you mean.  It's kind of sad that not many kids ar elearning
braille and as one of the people on here said earlier, what would those who
can't read braille do if there was a power cut etc?  I've asked the staff at
the college I go to the very same question when they insisted on us relying
on computers and they couldn't answer that one. 

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: 20 October 2010 18:04
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: the Personal Computer was the greatest thing ever invented for
the Blind

 

Sadly the Optacon is not longer made. Telesensory went under a decade or so
ago and that was a sad, sad day.

As for teaching Braille, this is another sorry state of affairs.

We have concentrated on the "mainstream" approach for handicapped children
thus we rely on itinerate VI teachers to fill the gap and most of those
teachers are not the least bit proficient in Braille thus the level of
instruction the blind student gets in public schools is minimal at best and
unacceptable at worst.

Add to this the fact that it is much easier to teach someone to use a
computer which will allow the student to read and write and you are fighting
a lost cause.

Even with the "normal" student the art of spelling is quickly fading as they
now rely on I-Pads, netbooks and such all of which have the spell checker.

One school here in the Denver area now issues an Ipad to all students.

While it is sad that blind students do not learn to write good Braille their
sighted counterparts have not learned to write good cursive either.
(LOLLOLLOL)

Anyone remember the pain of learning script in elementary school?

Since this is a JAWS list I will say that JAWS has made a significant
contribution to my ability to communicate with and receive communications
from many, many people it has also contributed to my declining ability to
compose a cohesive and properly constructed message. 

God forbid I should lose my spell checker.

Cy, The Anasazi (LOLLOLLOL) 

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Harmony Neil
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:47 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: the Personal Computer was the greatest thing ever invented for
the Blind

 

Do they still make the optigan? Or is it just old hardware/software now?

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Bissett, Tom
Sent: 20 October 2010 16:32
To: 'jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: RE: the Personal Computer was the greatest thing ever invented for
the Blind

 

I do think the personal computer is the best thing for blind people but the
opticon was a marvelous tool because you could actually see what the print
looked like.  With the opticon I could read diagrams and even hand writing
although that was always a challenge because hand writing styles vary so
greatly and you had to figure out how the person made their letters but it
could be done.  The opticon did cover ground that the personal computer has
not yet touched.  

 

Tom Bissett


 

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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Harmony Neil
Sent: October 20, 2010 11:08 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: the Personal Computer was the greatest thing ever invented for
the Blind

Agree with the last post. The optigan would probably be a very slow way of
reading printed material, although I can read raised print, but I've always
used some sort of computer and most of that time except when I was only
learning to touch type has been with a screen reader. I do however do the
thing of tapping the spacebar twice between sentences or enter twice between
paragraphs sometimes.  

 

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Alan Dicey
Sent: 20 October 2010 15:56
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: the Personal Computer was the greatest thing ever invented for the
Blind

 

Dear Cy, 

I respectfully disagree with you!

I am sure the Personal Computer was the greatest thing invented to assist
the Blind so far!

 

It will read anything also!

And it allows Blind to perform work as fast if not faster than Sighted
people.

 

With Best Regards,
Alan
Miami, Florida
Alan Dicey, President
United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
"Yes, Blind or Visually Impaired People Can, and Do, Play Chess!!!"
United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Cy Selfridge <mailto:cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>  

To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:37 AM

Subject: RE: One or two spaces

 

The Optacon was the single greatest invention of all times for a blind
person.

It is the only device which would allow a blind person to read almost
anything printed.

Cy, The anasazi 

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Dave Durber
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:32 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: One or two spaces

 

As an Optacon user, (Remember that useful gadget), to read books, I notice
that the amount of space between sentences still seems to be the equivalent
of two spaces.

 

There is a feature in Word that will create the equivalent amount of space
between sentences as if you had pressed the SPACE BAR twice.

 

You can have word do the same thing between paragraphs but with the
equivalent amount of space between paragraphs as if you had pressed the
ENTER key twice.

 

I have not used these functions personally, this is because I have no trust
in a Microsoft product to do always what it claims to do.  Oh, dear me,
untrusting cynic that I am.

 

So, being as I am becoming an old fuddy duddy,, I will go on tapping the
SPACE BAR twice between sentences and tapping the ENTER key twice to put a
blank line to insert a blank line between paragraphs and before and after
headings.

 

HTH

 

Sincerely:

 

Dave Durber

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: CrisMunoz54 <mailto:crismunoz54@xxxxxxxxx>  

To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 5:36 PM

Subject: RE: One or two spaces

 

Two spaces are from the days of the typewriter. Go one space. It'll look
better.

 

 

 


  _____  


From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 2:33 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: One or two spaces

 

Hi, John. Just to save anyone a duplication of effort, this Wikipedia link
is to the same article as the one given to us by G.W. Cox.

 


  _____  


From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of john R. Vaughn
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 4:57 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: One or two spaces

Adrian and list, interesting issue of whether to single or double space
after the terminal punctuation for a sentence and the beginning of the next
sentence.  Believe it or not, the link below is from wicipedia on the matter
and I found this from doing a google search.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#History

 

As for me, always a double space bar between sentences, I am going to try
the one space bar and and have sighted folks tell me if the MS Word program
does infact do some sort of variable spacing to clearly indicate the end of
one sentence and another.  

John 

 


  _____  


From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 2:04 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: please help

Hi, Richard.

 

You couch your argument in terms of blind computer users making sure their
work looks as polished as our sighted colleagues. I agree with this concept,
but you do it a disservice by flatly asserting that double spaces meet that
objective. I was persuaded to switch to single spaces while using word
processors by several sighted people who observed too much space at the ends
of my sentences and by a man who has published the two standard texts on
typesetting and typeset conventions.

 

There may be special circumstances, such as the tab issue brought up by Ted
Lisle, but the Wikipedia entry to which G.W. Cox sent a link lays out the
history and current general preference.

 

This is one of those questions that is very hard for us to grasp because the
impact is purely visual. Unsupported, strongly worded assertions don't help.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Richard P. Kelly
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:14 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: please help

 

Greetings all,

 

Proper formatting of a print document still calls for two spaces at the end
of a sentence, after a colon, and perhaps elsewhere. This remains true even
with mono spaced or proportionally spaced fonts. New word processors often
assure proper style is used if auto correct and grammar checking is on.
Still, we want what we print to look as polished as what our sighted
colleagues produce; if not better!

 

Cordially, Richard P. Kelly rpkelly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

www.new-visions-network.com

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:50 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: please help

 

Now that's interesting. I Have seen one space from time to time, but never
knew why. I sometimes long for the days of Pica and Elite, when laying out a
document. In the immortal words of Edith Bunker, "You knew where you were
then." However, I've managed to figure out which font-size combinations are
functional equivalents of the old Pica, 10-space-per-horozontal-inch,
format, and that's what I use. Vertical spacing will have to look after
itself.

 

Ted

 

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 6:37 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: please help

 

I preface this suggestion by acknowledging there's a debate about whether
there should be one or two spaces after the end of a sentence. Despite my
pre-computer typing training, I have been convinced that modern print fonts
mean that two spaces are no longer desirable. So the way I solve the problem
you describe is to search for two spaces and replace with one space. If you
think there might be an odd number of spaces, say three, then search for
that number first and replace with a single space. Then search for all
instances of a double space and replace with that single space.

 

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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Hina
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 6:24 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: please help

 

hi,

 

i am writing a lots of reports and i did figure out formatting issues, but i
am not sure how will i know if there are extra spaces between words,
sentenses and paragraphs without reading word by word which is so time
consuming? for sighted people, microsoft word highlights but is there any
way to know with jaws? microsoft's spell checke option says that there is
extra space and suppose to change it to make corrections, but they still
remain and is there a way to deal with this issue with jaws?

 

i would be very thankful for your help.

 

hina.

 

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