chip this info from f s supports my original stance and it came from their tech bulletin. while it probably no longer applies because its the nature of the game to fix bugs when they become known and this is not a recent post so suspect its fixed now. still h p is not a unknown small player in the market and one must assume they did something differant for it to occur on their system and not others. in fact the post states that A T I does not create drivers for hp notebooks. bill While all ATI Radeon cards tested at Freedom Scientific have passed on JAWS versions 4.x, some individuals report video card incompatibilty with these ATI Radeon cards, most commonly on mobile computing systems. The following information has not been verified in-house, but may prove useful, particularly if you are using JAWs with HP (Hewlett-Packard) laptops (and in some other cases, desktops) with ATI video cards. The latest JRE (Java Runtime Environment) may cause problems on HP laptops (and some desktops) with ATI video cards. 1. When applications that use the JRE are started, crashes occur, and systems fail. 2. JAWS support for Java and the JRE may conflict with the video card drivers. This can result in system halts and rebooting to safe mode is the only resolution. 3. ATI has posted on their website that ATI video card owners should visit their machine-specific websites for a remedy. ATI does not create drivers for HP laptops. Solution: Please use this information at your own discretion; the contents are neither verified nor endorsed by Freedom Scientific but provided to you solely on an informational basis. Reports indicate that the last time the driver worked correctly was JRE release 1.4.0_03. If you are experiencing system halts, instability, and sluggish performance and have an ATI video card, check your installed version of the Java JRE. If your version is newer than 1.4.0_03, then remove it and install the older version. Contact with Sun Microsystems reveals that when the new 1.4.1_04 release comes out, it should include a fix for the ATI problem. S bill -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx