Chris, Thanks for the advice to try them, but I asked the question so I wouldn't have to do that. What I have to lose is a lot of time and frustration. that's why I set out the parameters I did. Some people's idea of fun is messing with applications to see which one is accessible, or how they can make them so. NOt me. I recognize its sometimes unavoidable. But when possible, I like to avoid re-inventing the wheel. Mary -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx