Re: Well folks, I tried!

James,
given the considerable expense of major screen reader programs, I am 
impressed to realize that you apparently own and use both of the.  Did you 
make a deal with the Devil down at the crossroads?  Or did you get a 
contract to sing and play on the King Biscuit hour?  However you did it, I'm 
impressed.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Blind Melond Chitlin" <buttfish@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Well folks, I tried!


Hi,
Very true, but I did say that my opinion was coming from one very happy
w.e. customer, so as a result my opinion was a little biased.
The customer support is enough to sway me over, let alone the stability
issues, but anyhow.
I also am not saying that w.e. is free of total horror stories of
software conflicts, or installation problem either.
Join the w.e mailing list and ask a few questions about the product and
see what other users of both products have to say.
I am sure other jfw / w.e users are of a different opinion than me  and
prefer jfw.


Cheers, James

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of howard wolcott
Sent: Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:29 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Well folks, I tried!


hi blind melond chitlin:    i did try the WE demo.    it did not work on
my
computer.    i didn't even get the allotted 30 minutes.    does this
mean WE
is a bad screen reader?    no.    it just doesn't work on my system.
there are so many computers and so many different configurations,
there's no
way that a screen reader can work perfectly for everyone.    yes, i've
had a
few problems with JAWS, but none of the problems many other people are
having.    i do agree that FS should list not only what's new in each
new
update or upgrade, but list bug fixes from previous versions like they
used
to in prior versions.
howard wolcott
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Blind Melond Chitlin" <buttfish@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: Well folks, I tried!


> Hi,
> There are three different versions of w.e. one with a dongle, one with

> everlock copy protection, and mine with a serial number hard  coded on

> your installation cd. I was a user of slimware window bridge, and with

> the copy protection deal those chaps had was nothing but a never
> ending hassle for me. I live in Australia, and every time my master
> floppy disk for window bridge stopped working it was 150 bucks
> Australian to get them replaced, not that the company charged me, just

> courier costs..erk. So over the last 18 months or so that I have had
> window eyes, I have never had the problem of when my os wont boot ,
> starting to hit the, oh my god another lost li\cense key button..lol..
> So much so I don't even have jaws 5 installed on my machine any more..
> And now seeing the hassles ppl are having with jfw 6 and now 6.1, I am
> sooo glad of not wasting my bucks upgrading, or the waste of time
> fiddling with the damn product that should just work.....
> But I say this being one very happy window eyes camper.
> Now before being warned off by the list moderator, go have a look at
the
> gw micro home page, and join the mailing list. You may even want to
> download the free demo and have a drive for your self.
> http://www.gwmicro.com
>
>
> Cheers, James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Chip Orange
> Sent: Thursday, 14 April 2005 2:03 AM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Well folks, I tried!
>
>
> How do they handle copy protection? =20
>
>
>
> Chip Orange
> Database Administrator
> Florida Public Service Commission
>
> Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (850) 413-6314
>
> =20
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20  [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>On Behalf Of Blind Melond Chitlin
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:45 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Well folks, I tried!
>>=20
>> Hi,
>> I use jaws 5.0 as well as window eyes 4.5, both under windows=20  xp
>>pro To be really honest, window eyes works way better=20  outta the
>>box
>
>>than jaws, much less keyboard commands to=20  achieve the same stuff,
>>particually when using the mouse cursor.  No damn ilm/dongle/ pain in
>>der ass things like that.  Customer support is from what I see on the
>>list, and have=20  experienced myself is very very good, g.w. micro
>>seem to=20  really try to listen to their customer base.  As for price

>>I am not sure.  Now with new window eyes version 5.0, all the
>>complaints of=20  window eyes and m.s office seem to now be a thing of

>>the past=20  if list traffic on the w.e. list is anything to go by.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Cheers, James=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John McLuckie
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:29 AM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Well folks, I tried!
>>=20
>>=20
>> I am unfamiliar with winEyes, but have seen it mentioned in=20
>> various conversations on freelist.  I have been a JAWS user=20
>> for many years now, and although I am no expert, I can get=20
>> most things done that I need to and can usually find the help=20
>> I need for most popular applications.
>>=20
>> I am, however, becoming very concerned about the most recent=20
>> versions of JAWS, I still use 5.1.  I guess if there is going=20
>> to be a breaking point, I may wish to investigate WinEyes and=20
>> see how well it works as compared to my current and previous=20
>> satisfaction with the JAWS product.
>> Does anyone on this list use winEyes?  Can anyone tell us how=20
>> user friendly it is, how accessable popular software and the=20
>> internet are using that product?  How much does it cost and=20
>> what kind of support is available for that product? No use in=20
>> jumping from the familiar frying pan into the unknown=20
>> fire...so to speak.  thanks.
>>=20
>> John
>>=20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "harry bates" <hdbates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: Well folks, I tried!
>>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks Jerry for your efforts.  It looks like I am headed to WinEyes.
>> Since my 6.0 has been invalidated and there are so many=20
>> complaints about 6.1, which I have downloaded, but not yet=20
>> installed, I will stick to jaws 5.1, and seriously=20
>> investigate the possibility of switching to WinEyes after 16=20
>> years of being a jaws user.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jerry Neufeld" <jerry.neufeld@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: <ericd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:59 AM
>> Subject: Well folks, I tried!
>>=20
>>=20
>> > Hello everyone.
>> >
>> > Some weeks ago, several persons posted messages to this=20
>> list in which=20
>> > they complained, rather vocally, about the need for a new=20
>> > authorization, validation, call it what you like, each time they=20

>> > changed a bit of hardware in their computers. From the=20
>> standpoint of=20
>> > general principles, this issue troubled me, especially=20
>> since I, among=20
>> > many others on this list, like to experiment with different=20
>> devices,=20
>> > always looking for the optimal machine. While I was entirely=20
>> > sympathetic with Freedom Scientific's desire to safeguard their=20
>> > software, I was not very excited, shall we say, by the
>> > possibility=20 that, as had been claimed, each time I changed a
>> > floppy=20
>> drive, a sound=20
>> > card or added memory, I would have to first check that I had a=20
>> > validation left to cover me, should the locking code=20
>> extractor detect
>> the
>> > change and force an update. As I suspected, neither people in sales
>> nor
>> > technicians could shed any light at all on what Freedom was going
>> > to
>> allow
>> > us to do and not to do. So, calling upon a couple of old friends,
>> > I=20 contacted Sharon Spensor and Eric Damery to find out the=20
>> real story, I=20
>> > having promised members of this list to convey what I learned once
>> > I
>> had
>> > the
>> > information. Frankly, I suspected that the situation was much
>> > less=20 dramatic than had been represented on this list and that I
>> > would be=20 able to
>> return
>> > here with substantive details that would place our minds at=20
>> rest. Well=20
>> > folks, for reasons about which I can only speculate, it=20
>> didn't happen,
>> it
>> > simply didn't happen.
>> >
>> > Before I proceed further, even though Eric Damery has sent=20
>> me nothing,
>>=20
>> > contrary to his promise, I should forward a message from=20
>> him to people
>>=20
>> > on this list, something, it seems to me, he could easily have
>> > done=20 himself. I am to say that anyone encountering difficulties
>> > with=20 hardware changes and validation counts should get in=20
>> contact with him.
>> >
>> > Friendly as both Sharon and Eric were, the latter claimed that=20
>> > revealing what could and could not be changed in terms of
>> > hardware=20 peripherals would defeat the entire scheme, allowing
>> > hackers, as he=20 put it, to devise means to acquire unauthorized
>> > versions of the=20 software. I pointed out that, within months,
>> > enough of us who had=20 tried different hardware configurations
>> > would have compiled=20
>> a list of=20
>> > devices that could be substituted without new validations.=20
>> Rather than
>>=20
>> > forcing us to generate such a list, I said, why not create=20
>> some good=20
>> > will and let users know what to expect. Although I
>> did
>> > not
>> > say so, the specter of hackers seemed just a little paranoid and=20

>> > self-serving to me.
>> >
>> > What troubles me most about this issue is that, indirectly,
>> > Freedom=20 Scientific is forcing us to seek a license before we
>> > make
>
>> > minor=20 changes to our hardware, something that, in my view, is=20
>> outrageously=20
>> > invasive and intolerable. Unlike several other listers, I=20
>> have changed
>>=20
>> > one sound card for another without the slightest problem.=20
>> This may be=20
>> > true for numerous other internal devices as well, in which case
>> > we=20 have a veritable tempest in a teapot. Eric tells me of his=20
>> advice to=20
>> > FS customers that, prior to making any changes to their
>> > computers,=20 they check to see if they have any validations left,
>> > in my=20
>> language,=20
>> > any licenses by FS to make the change.
>> >
>> > I must confess to much disappointment in FS's official attitude
>> > on=20 this topic, yet one more indication of the company's=20
>> growing disregard
>>=20
>> > for consumer opinion. If I discover that a change in minor=20
>> devices or=20
>> > components like cd/dvd readers, floppy disk adaptors,=20
>> memory and the=20
>> > like force me to go to FS for another validation, with much,
>> > much=20
>
>> > regret, I will give up my ability to program with the Jaws
>> > screen=20
>
>> > reader and go to Window Eyes. Prior to doing this, however,=20
>> I am going=20
>> > to forward some of the messages on
>> this
>> > list along with a strongly-worded letter to each member of=20
>> FS's Board
>> with
>> > the hope that someone there will show more wisdom than that now
>> displayed
>> > by
>> > management.
>> >
>> > With much regret
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jerry
>> > jerry.neufeld@xxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> > --
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