Re: Jaws 8 a disapointment
- From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 02:37:54 +0100
The DOM some of you are complaining about really does appear to be just
JAWS's interface to its own understanding of the document, filtered
through the browser's DOM implementation and MSAA translation of that
DOM, rather than the real HTML DOM. The real HTML DOM potentially makes
navigation by paragraph (or heading, or link, or whatever) trivial.
Clearly, if navigation by paragraph is broken that's a fixable bug, not
a sign that using a DOM is a "bad idea". The P key is supposed to work:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/JAWSkeystrokes.asp
I suspect it would help if you guys were less laconic when sharing
experiences. Navigation by paragraph, we are told, works for Rick, but
not for Arnaud. But this information by itself is of little use without
knowing at the minimum:
1. What version of Windows each are using.
2. What web browser and version each are using.
3. A URL for a webpage where navigation by paragraph does or does not
work. (Not everything that looks like a paragraph on a webpage actually
is a paragraph.)
Certainly, when reporting bugs to Freedom Scientific technical support,
the more detail you provide the better.
For those of you frustrated by this process, remember that Freedom
Scientific are not the only ones who can help you here. Web
accessibility depends on interactions between multiple technology
layers. Not all glitches will be Freedom Scientific's fault: many will
be the fault of particular webpage developers, Microsoft's accessibility
framework, or browser developers (Microsoft and Mozilla). Microsoft has
the microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general newsgroup for reporting
Internet Explorer problems. Mozilla go one better and offer a public bug
tracker which you search entries, report new bugs, lodge feature
requests, and follow up on progress; see:
http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/bugs
The intersecting layers involved in web accessibility pose a problem,
but also offer multiple avenues by which to approach a given problem. If
navigation by paragraph does not work with JAWS, by all means report
your problem to Freedom Scientific, especially if it should work
according to the JAWS documentation. But I'd strongly encourage you to
also try seeing if Firefox itself or a Firefox extension such as
Paragrasp, Fire Vox, or the Firefox Accessibility Toolbar will give you
the functionality you require:
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2266/
http://www.firevox.clcworld.net/
http://firefox.cita.uiuc.edu/
If such extensions don't offer what you need (as is probably the case
with Fire Vox and the toolbar), you can also ask their developers if
they could enhance them with that functionality.
Finally, note that if your main screen reader does not offer the web
experience you wish, you could try installing NVDA or another free,
lightweight screen reader along side it. NVDA offers navigation by
paragraph with the P key.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
On Sat, 2007-03-24 at 20:48 -0400, Rick Harmon wrote:
> I've had a couple of different things fixed by submitting the problem
> to FS. So I disagree with you there. If no one turned anything to FS
> for fixes then Jaws would be much worse than you think it is now.
>
> Rick
>
>
> =======
>
> Visit my webpage and podcast feed at www.blind-geek-zone.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Agent86b
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Jaws 8 a disapointment
>
>
> Even if you submit complaints to FS it has been my experience
> nothing changes.
> Max.
>
> on 01:50 25/03/2007, Rick Harmon said:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Have you made any of your problems known to FS? Complaining
> > here won't make
> > JAWS work any better. Everyone that has issues with JAWS
> > needs to submit
> > their complaints to them. Otherwise your wasteing your
> > time.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > =======
> >
> > Visit my webpage and podcast feed at www.blind-geek-zone.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "alicia" <astarner@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: Jaws 8 a disapointment
> >
> >
> > I agree. I have not used JAWS 8 in some time, because I
> > honestly feel it is
> > the worse release ever put out by Freedom Scientific. It has
> > many bugs;
> > therefore, I have resorted to using JAWS 7.1 until FS
> > repairs the many
> > things that are wrong with the 8 version.
> >
> > Alicia
> >
> > "The chief handicap of the blind is not blindness, but the
> > attitude of
> > >seeing people towards them."
> > >- Helen Keller, 1925
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "marcatony" <marcatony@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 9:53 AM
> > Subject: Jaws 8 a disapointment
> >
> >
> > > I am very disapointed in Jaws 8. There are so many
> > sites that I can not
> > > get it to read. Between telling me there are non-existant
> > attachments to
> > > telling me that buttons are inactive. I have two versions
> > of Jaws close
> > > at
> > > hand since Jaws 7 seems to be able to read more things.
> > >
> > > Marsha Anderson
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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--
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JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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