Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

From: "Yadiel Sotomayor" <yadosotomayor@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:55 -0400

?Forgive my ignorance, but is that even legal? Using the jaws commands?Isn't that plagiarism? Of corse, NVDA uses almost of the jaws commands aswell, so there must be something there.


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim" <tim@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:29 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Actually, Window Eyes has an option to allow you to use all of the JAWScommands to operate it. I was not aware of the $60 increase in the cost toupgrade. Oh well, I guess they just expect me to pull it off the moneytree growing in my backyard. Hmmm. That means it will cost $720 just toget to JAWS 12 plus another $180 for the deal on the next two versionswhich brings me to $900. Well, I guess it will cost me just as much to goto the latest version of JAWS as it would to go to Window Eyes. Wow, mydecision is getting easier and easier.

Tim

----- Original Message -----From: "Yadiel Sotomayor" <yadosotomayor@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

?Frankly, I uninstalled jaws for a while and used windows eyes. Nevercouldget the hang of it. I found very complicated and very unintuitive. If Iwere

to choose, I will go with jaws and if jaws wasn't available, (and I needed
to work with a windows machine) I will go with NVDA. If I could have a
choise of what kind of machine I was going to use, then I will go with

apple. You don't need authorization, the screen reader improves everytimeanew OS is launch and since the screen reader is part of the OS andtherefore

was created while the OS was being develop we can relax knowing that the

screen reader is going to work without almost no bugs. Also, if yourfriends

have an apple computer, you just hit CMD plus F5 and there you go. Screen
reader ready to use.


This comment is directed to Tim, have you contact FS and explain this
problem? Have they given you an answer? One thing that I encourage with my
friends is to have every single part of their software, specially screen

readers updated. Sure, some features are not going to work correctly, butatleast the company involved will be able to tackle the problem on thecurrentversion. Because we must face the fact that even though we stay with anoldversion of a software the company won't and they are not going to be abletoupdate it nor help you by creating a patch for a software that is yearsout

of date.

Just my two cents

Yadiel

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:44 AM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

Tim,

I believe your experience of JAWS slipping into 40-minute mode is
uncommon.
Mine doesn't do it. I switched to WindowEyes at a time when I, too, was
furious at FS. I'll spare you the details because I could never prove a
connection between installation of JAWS 4.0 and the wrecking of my
computer.
However, WindowEyes and its tech support proved even more frustrating. I
soon returned to JAWS, and I have to say FS's people were helpful from
then

on. JAWS 4.5 was a very good version, leading me to believe I wasn'talone

with my 4.0 problems.

If you're comfortable using JAWS, aside from the 40-minute mode problem,
I'd

urge you to put your energy and resources into solving the problem. Oneof

the points that FS minimizes by its promotion of new features, such as
Research It, is that they constantly upgrade JAWS to handle the
ever-developing Web. Between Adobe and FS, for example, PDF files have
been
made much easier to handle. There was a time when they were often
impossible. Other developments are more obscure and so harder for a
consumer-oriented company like FS to publicize.

I am critical of FS. Among many other programming deficiencies, I am told
by

experts in the field that JAWS's never-solved the memory leak problem isa

sign of poor coding. I also suspect they rely too heavily on government
contracts to the detriment of consumer satisfaction. Nevertheless, the
program undeniably provides unprecedented access to writing tools,
research
sources and so much more, and I am convinced JAWS is the leader in the
screenreading arena.

As the expression goes, switching to another screenreader could becutting

off your nose to spite your face.

-----Original Message-----

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] OnBehalf

Of Tim
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 2:19 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hi Zdenek,

My main complaint about JAWS 12, along with every other version of JAWS,
is
that it constantly slips back into 40 minute mode. This is why I am not

buying another version of JAWS until this gets fixed. Window Eyes doesnotmake you reauthorize your software every time you plug in a USB deviceor,

Heaven forbid, close your netbook in order to conveniently carry it with

you. I am currently setting aside money to purchase my copy of WindowEyesvery soon. Yes, I am counting down the days until I will be liberatedfrom

this crazy existence. I am still using JAWS 8 and it has been constantly
slipping into 40 minute mode during interviews and school projects over
the
past few weeks. This program was supposed to make me more independent. To

say the least I am disgusted and I am not willing to settle for theDongle

to fix my problems either.

As far as the Research It feature, seriously, most people know how to use

search engines. From what I have heard about Research It, it sounds likea

pointless feature.

Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Well I have a friend who uses windoweyes and when I told him what new
version of jaws can do he acknowledged that it sounds pretty cool for
instance the support for new office, vinux acknowledges to be worse than
comercial speech stuff, I don`t know about nvda nor about serotek nor
about
support for mac so just trying to keep things in perspective. Since I am
not
american do I give a shitt about researchit features good for americans
like

american sports or zip codes bookshare no I do not but well that`s partofthe product. As I tried to state bringing up valid and specificcriticissm

of freedom scientific is valid and let them know aobut the issues is good
but I don`t expect all my complains to be answerewed because other people
may have different one and they may be in general more important although
all of us know that my points are the most important and always the right
one haha. Zdenek

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Zdenek,

No arguments (or b-ing) from me, and I won't even complain about your
complaint on my complaining. I sense your frustration with the Braille
display issue, and am not able to commiserate since I don't use one. But
I'll continue to bring JAWS' fallacies to the attention of Freedom
Scientific in the hope that they veer back toward the notion of "Job
Access"
being the first two letters in their name.

Otherwise, they should consider renaming the product "RIWS" to better
describe their present direction.

I'll let Cy chime in on what that stands for.

Dave Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in and around my Audio Recording and
Mixing Studios, San Jose, California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 19:36
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

dave, and that's myh bitch sabout bitching. Stimulating bitching jaws is
worse than windoweyes in this respect explanation follows jaws is worse
than
mac speech explanation follows useless bitching jaws did not fix this
bitching follows there are many applications and many demands and it must
be
difficult to try to stay on top of everything which is in demand perhaps
the
future is not in assistive technology but in companikes like microsoft
coming up with speech for their product but that's not happening so until
then we have to rely on
products like jaws with all their problems and don't think that other
products for nonvisually impraid don't have bugs and don't think that
other
companies don't sue how come that some speech software for blind does not

support focus braille display only because it is produced by jaws howcome

that noone bittches about that? food for thought? Zdenek

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Zdenek

,

And miss out on all the stimulating discussion? Never. Just because I
decry
the fallacies of JAWS and the apparent direction it's headed, I don't
think
any other screen reader is better, and choose to not sit down and learn a
new one all over again. I switched from Window-Eyes to JAWS back around
1999

or so. Too old now to change, and also too old to not exercise my rightto

complain once in a while.

Dave Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in and around my Audio Recording and
Mixing Studios, San Jose, California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:24
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

well, I am not too sure if it is a good idea to critisize fs like this.
Well
if you do not like their product why do you use it? suggest something
better
say bye to the list and switch. Zdenek

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:10 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

I agree that fs should nail down the basic functionality before addingthe

gizzmoes. I don't need! The gizzmoes but I need jaws to to do what is
advertised and stable.

Tom Bisset

-----Original Message-----

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] OnBehalf

Of Alan Dicey
Sent: November 23, 2010 12:26 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hello Cy, and Friends, Well, I have an icon and short cut keys for my
Random
House Webster's Unabridge Dictionary, the Wikipedia site, and use "Google
Acssesible", so then you see I do not need the Research it feature of
JAWS.

And as some one else pointed out, I think it a fantastic idea that FS

develops specific JAWS programs, for example those using BrailleDisplays,

Large Screen magnification programs, and thus keep JAWS as basic as

possible, therefore avoiding as many conflicts and problems having somany

features in their package as they can.

Just my 2 cents worth!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President UnitedStates

Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired
People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home
Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hi, I agree. Research It is not necessary but it sure is handy when oneis

in Outlook ant wants to look up something with the dictionary or Wiki
Pedia.
Cy, The Anasazi

-----Original Message-----

From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] OnBehalf

Of Yadiel Sotomayor
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:51 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

?Like I have said in previous posts, I like research it. Specially the
dictionary and wiki pedia modules. I really don't care much about sports
and

so I don't use them at all. But I must admit that the news modules isvery

useful and interesting (here in Puerto Rico the world news are almost non
existing) and its good to be informed. However, like most of the peaple
who
use research it, it is fun, but not nesesary. Specially if the companies
and

universities don't create modules to make the information accessible with
it. That is where the true power of research it really lies on creating
modules to get certain kind of information accessible to jaws users. But
no
one creates them and so research it remains a fun feature, but nothing
else.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Daniel McGee" <mc-g@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 8:18 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hi to all on this topic. I agree ok at 1st I liked Research it and when I

listened to that podcast I thought that is a cool feature but I mustadmit


I hardly even use the keystroke. In my personal opinion, I am glad that I
waited until jaws 12 came out. The virtual Ribbon was worth the waiting
for!
Now I can use office
2007

with out avoiding it any more. I wonder why FS didn't fix that when it1st

came out. Hopefully it will continue to improve over the coming year.I'll

admit I couldn't see anything that was benifitual in jaws 11 and at the
end
of the day what's the point of research it if you don't do the research
your
self! LOL Thanks Daniel

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 10:39 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Dear Cy, Well Said! Research it? Research it? I ain't got no Research it!
I
ain't got to use no stinkin Research it!

LOL!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President UnitedStates

Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired
People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home
Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

Well fellas, I agree. Keep that old Windows 98 machine. Things were a
whole
lot simpler back then because we were not trying to be all things to all
people. (LOLLOLLOL) Just remember what happened to Julius Caesar when he
tried to be all things to all people. (LOLLOLLOL) Cy, The Anasazi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:38 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Alan,

Good point, however I would think that after all those years, and thefact

that you've made no changes to the operating system nor JAWS on that old
Gateway, might have some impact on its relative stability. Keeping a
simple
unencumbered version of JAWS is the path to happiness. Don't let that
computer go. And I see you still have Openbook 7. Keep that, too. I found
several significant problems with OB9. They pulled that cookie out of the
oven too soon.

I continue to rant at how "bloated" is becoming our beloved JAWS, withall

the features, some of which I consider frivolous. Of course my opinion is
worth every penny or Kopeck or Guilder or Pound you might pay for it, and
therefore worth nothing to anyone who has a different opinion.

I've asked FS specifically to start branching out JAWS into three basic
products (and price then appropriately) -- one for speech, one for
Braille,
and one for magnification. Then the code you pay for and receive is
optimized for your requirements and not hobbled to make it a cure-all for
all ailments.

Of course each "module" should allow merging of the other module to allow
dual capability.

And of course it was appreciated and considered as not being a suggestion

that would result in any improvement. So there I go. Another opinionworth

every penny.

Alan, thanks for providing me yet another soap box to step up onto.

Dave Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 12:38
Subject: JAWS getting better or worse!

Dear Dorothy, and List Members, I did not want to give any of you fine
folks

the impression I am a cave man, and just using a old Gateway machinewhich

I
purchased in early 1999, which runs Windows 98 (first Edition) JAWS 5 and
I

think Open Book 6, but I also have a Dell with XP-Home with JAWS 11latest

updates, and Open Book 7.02.

The point here especially for Dave is that things have not gotten better

for Blind computer users, Microsoft Windows users, nor JAWS users, they
have
gotten worse, as I have not had a single problem with my old computer's
configuration for 11 years.

Can any say that about what they are using right now, with JAWS 12,
Windows
7?

Not I!! LOL!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President UnitedStates

Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired
People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home
Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Hello Dave I met Ted Henter in 1990

it was interesting, and I think another list member met him as well I
cannot

spell his name but something like John fiorant,no but I will find it heis

retired and seems to have known everyone. the list can be a bit stuffy at
times, interesting seeing how many are using dell computers, having had
dreadful service and a Drive failure plus fact when engineer came he put
in
another faulty western digital, in all I have had to pay

a local engineer a great deal to set it up again,then heard Dell made big

profits and are pulling out of Ireland now the Irish economy is sinking,I

have a good VIP friend in Herefordshire who once said tome 7, and a prior
viglen XP desktop "pack them up and find a courier and send to me and I
will
do a rebuild, well of the viglen he knew,the engineers were making

a mess of things, re vintage computers, the maker of your windows 98,must

have been good, my late friend who loved his windows 98 had his pc custom

made by a local small 2 man business.regarding booths current delldesktop

sorry I have a broken shoulder and typing is very hard, I was thinking
like
some cars, they get a good name and on usa I think a song was sung about
Chevrolet57----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 5:59 PM
Subject: Hello Dave I met Ted Henter in 1990

Hello Dave, I apoligize if my message was not apropiate for the list, but
I
thought the person said he had been using JAWS since the 1980's, and when
I
met Ted Henter, in late 1990, almost 1991, he was still developing JAWS.
It
had not been released yet!

Thank you!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President UnitedStates

Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired
People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home
Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: I met Ted Henter in 1990

Alan,

What's the context of your message? I find nothing to tell me why you
posted
this reply.

Fill me in.

Dave Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 06:43
Subject: I met Ted Henter in 1990

Dear Friends, Well, I met Ted Henter in November 1990 when he came to a
Blind Computer Users Group I had founded here in Miami. He basically came
to
say he was developing a Screen Reading software.

I must tell you, I did not take him very serious, nor did I think many of
the nearly 30 attendents did

I actually chuckled to myself of course, when he took the speakers stand
and
started his presentation, "How does this guy think he can go up against
Digital Equipment Company, DEC Talk, the IBM Screen Reader, Giant
corporations that could throw as much money into their Screen reading
software programs as they cared to".

I had not a clue that he was on to something fantastic! I remember him as
a
very kind soft spoken, cordial gentleman. I am so glad it worked out for
him, and us!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President UnitedStates

Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired
People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home
Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: new on the list

Hello Bob!

Welcome to the list. Since the 1980s? What version of JAWS are you
currently
using? Some of us are using JAWS 12 on various platforms and have noticed
some vagaries in operation. What's your experience?

Dave Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
California

----- Original Message -----
From: "bob mathews" <bmathews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 22:10
Subject: new on the list

Hi all, I am new on the list, but have been a JAWS user since the
1980tys...

Bob Mathews Bob Mathews Consulting
866 6343773
bmathews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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