That's more or less what I mean, except for one thing. I repeat, I have
no
idea what it means to describe a Web page as having a point of focus
upon
the loading of the page. I used to see a Web page clearly, and I know
that
no matter whether a Web page had edit fields or not or how important
they
were to the function of the page, there wasn't anything I could discern
as a
"focus." The page simply appeared on the screen. And if I saw an edit
field
and wanted to type something in it, I simply did. But it was not as if
something in my browser was already focused somewhere. It wasn't . There
isn't any such thing, so far as I know. I think this is a lot more to do
with what happens in the screen reader when the page loads. Not
something
inherent that anyone at all would be aware of, including the page
designer.
See what 'm saying? I don't feel as if we're talking on the same terms,
for
some reason. Sorry.
desingers.describve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harmon" <rharmon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
No, if the primary thing you do on a page is immediately use an edit
field
such as in the case of google then the focus is on the edit field. I do
believe this to be proper design of the webpage and nothing of FS doing
at
all.
Also it has nothing to do with web designers hijacking us jaws users at
all.
Most of these web page designers have no idea what jaws even is.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
But Peter,
I'm not sure from what perspective you're saying this about page design.
When a Web page loads for a sighted user not using a screen reader,
there
is
not a focus issue or the page capturing the mouse pointer or a cursor of
some sort and jumping anywhere. The page simply loads, the person sees
all
of it, glances to where they want to look, and reads. Or, if they want
to
use an edit field, they see it and then put the mouse pointer on it.
They
aren't captured the way our Jaws focus is hijacked when a page loads and
takes us straight to an edit field.
So do you mean that Web page designers have deliberately coded something
into edit fields in many cases that they know will attract the Jaws
focus?
Or is this rather something that FS designs into the way Jaws sees the
page
as it loads? Or some combination of these two things? See what I mean?
designes JasewJaww
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
Yes you can design the web page so that it jumps the user straight to a
field, and yes it will be because of that design as to why it happens
with
some sites and not with others.
I think that JAWS should initially treat the edit field it first jumps
to
as
the page loads, in the same way as it treats form fields when you use
the
quick navigation keys.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:20 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> Hi Peter and all,
>
> It occurs to me that the reason this inconvenient forms mode thing is
> happening when some Web pages load is that for reasons I'm not
> sophisticated
> enough to understand, the Jaws focus is sometimes drawn to the first
> edit
> field it sees as the page loads. As everyone knows, this doesn't
> happen
> with
> every page, not even a lot of pages that have search functions not far
> from
> the top of the page. The New York Times, for instance. When one of the
> article pages load, Jaws leaves me at the top of the page where I can
> hear
> the headline of the article and the name of the paper. If I actually
> wish
> to
> use the global search function to look for something I don't know
> where to
> find in that day's edition, I hit E or arrow down or whatever until I
> get
> to
> the search form.
>
> But on other Web pages, Jaws jumps to a search edit field immediately,
> bypassing text and other page elements that precede it if I arrow back
> upward to see what's there. So it's something about this which, if it
> didn't
> happen that way, wouldn't trigger the auto forms mode thing that's got
> everyone annoyed. Or almost everyone, anyway.
>
> If anyone knows more about page design and the coding of Jaws to
> confirm
> or
> preferably add to that admitted speculation, I'd be really interested
> to
> hear something more about this. It's the technology that interests me
> at
> this point, as I am not playing with the Beta and I don't feel like
> getting
> involved in complaining about Freedom Scientific's corporate style or
> defending them, either.
>
> Thanks very much.
> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:27 AM
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>
> Yeh you do it out of habit, and then because it's already in forms
> mode it
> causes you to press submit or something instead.
>
> As I say, I like it though, just don't want it to turn on
> automatically.
>
> Peter
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "dave-d0619" <dave-d0619@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 AM
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>> I like that improvement, especially for sites such as Google, where
>> you
>> land
>> on the search edit field after the site has loaded.
>>
>> Personally, I am so used to pressing ENTER to turn on Forms Mode, I
>> would
>> probably continue to do it out of habit and, as we all know, some
>> habits
>> are
>> so hard to break or change.
>>
>> Sincerely:
>>
>> Dave Durber
>>
>> --
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