RE: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
- From: "Alex Stone" <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 01:02:34 +0100
Adrian, I'll start by saying that apart from what I've just read, I know
absolutely nothing about The Children's Foundation. However if Freedom
Scientific's complaints are even remotely true then the children's
Foundation are entirely in the wrong.
Cheers
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: 09 August 2010 00:04
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
aGary,
I want to begin by saying I very much respect your point of view and your
experience.
someone sent me a copy of the legal complaint that FS filed against the
children's foundation. As these documents tend to be, it is spare, but
here's an outline.
1. FS terminated its marketing agreement with the foundation for reasons
unstated and formally asked it to stop selling FS products and using FS's
trademarks.
2. The foundation continued to do so.
I don't vouch for these allegations and I can't say what the foundation will
say in response, but based on what we know so far, how can we, at this
distance, jump to any conclusions that FS is doing anything other than
looking after its best interests? Are we saying as disabled people that
companies in this field should exempt themselves from the usual human
instinct to protect oneself?
By the way, the fact that a foundation has been around since 1952 tells me
nothing. In fact, based on experience, I've become concerned about
organizations that have survived longer than their founders. Sometimes the
new people in charge are more motivated by a desire to look good in the
community than for the organization itself to do good.
Another point people make is that FS maintains its lawsuit against GW Micro
even though the US Patent Office has ruled against FS. However, the US
Patent Office isn't a court, and its determinations are being challenged on
numerous other fronts. Patent law is as intricate as it gets, and in many,
many areas that innate complexity is made even more difficult by lively
public policy debates.
My only reason for diving into this thread is to try to encourage people to
avoid making assumptions, such as about the Arizona foundation or FS's
motives. If you're right about FS's treatment of braille displays, and I
know others make the same criticism, that would be a cause of concern for
me. That question seems to be less based on rumor. But most of what I've
read in these threads is rumor and speculation. People say FS should spend
less money on lawyers and more on programmers. Maybe we as JAWS users should
spend less time on rumor-mongering and more on pressuring FS to write code
that doesn't cause the memory leakage recently and helpfully explained by
Joseph Lee.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Gary King
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 6:03 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
The actions of FS both on the litigation front and towards their competitors
in general could be open to interpretation. FS would say that their lawsuits
are to protect their brand and patents, and that forcing Braille display
manufacturers to get their 64-bit drivers signed is just to make our
computing environment safer. others would say that they are out to harass or
possibly crush their competition through expensive lawsuits and to put other
Braille display manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage since FS doesn't
need to pay anyone to get the Braille drivers signed for their Focus Braille
displays. People will have to decide for themselves which of these
interpretations is correct.
As for the Foundation for Blind Children, it's quite easy to find
information about them with Google. They say they've been around since 1952
as an Arizona charity, so they must be doing something right. Their biggest
mistake was probably becoming an FS dealer. Having talked with other former
FS dealers about their experiences, I'm very glad that the nonprofit that I
once worked for didn't go that route. We wanted to make assistive technology
product recommendations without any bias.
Gary King w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
I feel this and two related threads could use a larger-world context. WE all
rely on brand names for assurances about the taste and quality we associate
with things we buy. Whether it's a frozen vegetable or a shirt, an ice cream
or an MP3 player, a brand name with a track record makes it likely that our
money will be well spent.
I haven't followed FS's litigation history closely, but my sense is that the
objective of its lawsuits is to maintain the integrity of its name by
ensuring that no one either misuses it or claims patent rights that belong
to it.
Lawsuits over brand names can be abused. I think of McDonald's suing a
restaurant in Scotland for using the family McDonald's name. There's also
the problem that big brand names make it difficult for new brands to
establish themselves.
Still, there's nothing inherently evil in a company's desire to uphold its
brand name.
I've noticed that a number of comments in this thread disparage FS's lawsuit
against some place for children that no one seems to know anything about. I
have no information whatsoever about this lawsuit or the outfit FS sued. But
the mere fact that the outfit says it exists for children doesn't make it
inviolable or perfect. Charles Dickens and Zola wrote about some nasty
children's organizations in their day, and they haven't all gone away. Here
in New York, there's been a long ad campaign during prime time and baseball
games for a charity that encourages people to turn in their cars for payment
in order, supposedly, to help kids. I've wondered how a charitable
organization engaged in raising funds can pay commercial advertising rates
to solicit contributions.
I tried to understand the issues raised by Arabic and Farsi speakers in this
thread, but they're hard to unravel, between international sanctions and
possible distributor deficiencies. I, too, would like to know why FS changed
a code that affects how those languages are handled by JAWS. I can tell,
however, that no one here really knows the complete picture.
We all have reservations about how FS writes software, how it listens or
doesn't listen to consumer concerns, how expensive its products are, and so
on. But my experience with competitors hasn't been any better, and in some
ways worse. In fact, I've found FS people such as Eric, Brian and John to be
receptive and often up-front.
So I personally resist a knee-jerk reaction to some of these reports.
Speaking for myself, I'd be sorry if JAWS faded into the sunset. It is very
much a part of my life. Like the people in my life, I argue with JAWS and FS
all the time, but they have benefited me beyond compare.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Gary King
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 1:49 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
While lawsuits may be routine for the business world these days, this was
not so for the access technology industry until Freedom Scientific came
along. Manufacturers of access technology were a lot more civil in the days
of Henter-Joyce, Blazie Engineering and Arkenstone, the companies that
merged to form Freedom Scientific. While I'm sure the owners profited
handsomely from the sale of their companies, I know of at least one that
said he made a mistake. I will say that I agree with Dean Blazie.
Gary King w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
I think Dorothy first brought it up. Perhaps she has some details.
Personally I don't really care, since lawsuits are becoming de regeur for
any business concern.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yadiel" <yadosotomayor@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 09:16
Subject: Re: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
Hello everybody:
I have heard a lot of mention about the FS law suits... Would anyone care to
explain what they are and what are the reasons for them?
Yadiel
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 9:24 AM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
Farfar, wash out your mouth. (LOLLOLLOL) Stuck with ME, God forbid. (LOL)
Cy, The Anasazi
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:56 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
Well, not to digress even more off topic, but I have to suggest that
Microsoft's launch of Windows 7 was driven less by user complaints of Vista
than by the competition being offered by Apple. If Microsoft had a
non-competitive market, we'd still be stuck with Windows ME.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armond" <armond1980@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 21:26
Subject: [Follow] Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!
Well, guys, whether or not JAWS has been or is tremendously helpful to the
visually impaired is simply beyond the point. No one can or should deny the
fact that JAWS has been helping thousands of users in a variety of context.
However, that doesn't mean the follies of its developers should be ignored.
That would be like, say, having ignored Windows Vista's multitudinous
problems and headaches simply because Microsoft has been developing
different permutations of Windows for so long. On the other hand, what we
now call a positive experience, or simply a better experience, with Windows
7 is the direct consequence of user complaints and taking into account those
glitches. Now who can deny the usefulness of Windows? On a similar topic,
isn't iPhone a revolutionary product with its full-fledged screen reader,
helping many visually impaired people all over the world with its cornucopia
of apps and functions? But this doesn't prevent users from complaining about
rather serious antenna issues with the 4th generation of iPhones. Likewise,
when we simply state that Freedom Scientific is moving in the wrong
direction with its approach toward beta testing and bug handling--and I
don't want to mention the issue of the frequency of major upgrades which
unnecessarily kill SMA licenses, it doesn't mean that we excoriate the whole
history of JAWS from the HJ days forward. Rather, it's just meant to keep
both the user community and, hopefully, the developers aware of the issues
which have beleagured JAWS. As for this particular bug, why should people
buy extra language packs when Unicode support in combination with a TTS
engine can do the job? And this has been the case for some years and is
still the case with other screen readers which support Unicode. And, last
but not least, this has nothing to do with international sanctions against a
particular country; rather, it's a totally technical issue as, say, Arab
countries aren't under any particular sanctions whatsoever. Imagine having
to purchase JAWS language packs from certain dealers in order to be able to
read and write in Russian, Greek, and Polish.
--
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