Hi,This started out as a discussion of say-all or locating the top of a paragraph, and now we're talking about graphics labeling. Hmmmmmm.
I'm no list cop, but hey, how about a subject line change.----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
Yes, it's useful on a Web site, or any other app with unidentified icons. I remember a time when JAWS did not recognize tabs in Microsoft Word. You could remedy the problem by labeling the icon yourself. The only trick was resetting the minimum pixel count from 10 to 9, so JAWS could actually see the icon. Ted -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:58 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Ted, I see the problem I was having with these keyboard commands. I was doing them while in an open email message, and finally one of them produced the error message that I wasn't focused on a graphic, so could not label it. I see. You have to be somewhere like on a Web site with graphics or that sort of environment before you give these commands. Duhhh.. (hitting self on forehead)----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 1:03 PM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating I think the Ins-Ctrl combo starts an autolabeler, which is supposed to automatically scan the document and assign labels to any icons it finds. I've only tried it once or twice, and never had much luck. Ted -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:29 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating I was surprised at the suggestion of control insert g, given below, so I tried it. All that happens on my system is that Jaws says "start," as if I'd just opened the Start menu, which didn't happen, actually. Here's how I go to the Graphics Labeler: I press Insert F2 and then arrow down to Graphics Labeler. I'll bet someone knows of a command using just Insert plus a num row key, as in the way you can open Configuration Manager with Insert 6 if you don't want to bother with the Insert F2 menu, but I don't know that one. Just offering alternatives. .----- Original Message ----- From: "Devona Abel" <djasister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating control insert g.----- Original Message ----- From: "cheryll" <cheryll@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:39 AM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say AllnititatingThank you. Do you know what the command is for labeling graphics? Much thanks, C----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:58 AM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Jaws key-number row 3. This is the number row one would find on an old-fashioned typewriter, not the number pad. Ted -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of cheryll Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:08 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating What is the pass through command? Thanks in advance, C----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 6:30 AM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Your most welcome. I don't use pass through much, but every screenreader I've worked with (three in 21 years) has had somethinglikeit. My first program was function-key intensive, so it used F10 as a pass through--tap F10 twice, and the next function-key stroke passedtothe application. (anybody else remember VOS? That program was wayaheadof the curve for the mid 1980's--and it was written by a native Kentuckian to boot.) Ted -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 3:40 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Ted, P.S. I'm really glad you thought of this. it works great for my purposes.Don't have to search too far from the left end of the num row to find the 3, which would be a deterrent if it were many keys farther to the right-- for instance, to open Configuration manager, I'm more likelytopress Insert F2, arrow down once and hit Enter than I am to pressInsertand count with my left fingertip up to the number six-- and it doesn'thaveto be toggled off once it's done its job. A simple solution and a fineone.Whew. What a relief.----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Ted, Thanks for reminding me of this option. I may use it now and then. I guess it's a tossup between lunging for the Control key to shut Jaws up and stop it moving, and using the pass-through key. But when I'm working on something and trying to maintain my concentration, Jaws running away with my cursor and jabbering can be so stressful that it's worth trying anything. So, thanks. I know the pass-through key idea may sound obvious, but I hadn't thought of it at all. Daniel (who is obviously no rocket surgeon) curosr ro the ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFSDMS)"<Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:45 AM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating There's a simple workaround. When you want to go to the top of a paragraph, or move to the next paragraph without hearing anything, use the pass-through key first. That way JFW will treat the next commandasa pure Windows command. I tried this approach before posting, and it seems to work. Ted -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:07 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Hi Chris, I'm sorry, but this distinction is not a problem. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. When I referred to "say all," what I was trying to describe was just any situation in which Jaws starts reading automatically. You see? My point wasn't whether that command made Jaws try to readallthe way to the end of a document, or just to the end of a paragraph. My point was that I wished Jaws wouldn't start speaking at all when I went tothestart of a paragraph just to get to the start of a paragraph and do something there. See? thank you very much.----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jenkins" <saveup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Hello. The keystroke that you are speaking of is not the say all command.Thiskeystroke places you at the top of the paragraph and only reads to the bottom of the paragraph. It does not read to the bottom of the document. I hope this helps. Chris. -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:20 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Jerry, You're describing this key stroke as if it's Jaws proprietary, but I feel as if I remember it in my pre-Jaws days as simply being the Word keyboard command for going to the beginning of the paragraph and staying there. Now, these other commands you mention, are they the one-keynavigationalcommands that were added to Jaws for Word a version or so ago, meanttowork sort of like the one-key navigational commands on a Web page? I'venevertried any of those in Word, though if I read you correctly, it'd bethesame thing. My cursor would go to that point, but Jaws would just start reading again like some sort of unstoppable robot. Well, let me try these letter P keystrokes... Okay. I used the Insert V menu to turn on the navigational keystrokes.Isee. By "redundant," you mean equivalent in this case, as I thought.Asyou know, that has the very same effect. So I guess there's nothing for it but to do as I've been doing all along, as Judith reminds us. Use the keystroke to get where you want to, but hit Control as quickly as you can tostopjaws from taking off on its own. Sort of like a video game, except that,for us, you're talking about hand-ear coordination instead of hand-eye coordination. Ah, my days of pinball championships at the bars and the amusementparkarcades. Well, that's milk under the bridge or whatever. Brainscience,rocket surgery. Darn. Oh, well, at least I asked. To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating That keystroke is move by paragraph and after you do it, it reads the paragraph. The redundancy for this is P or shift P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: "JFW List" <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Hi, I'm using Jaws 8, but this has been happening to me for long enough so that I forget when it started. Now, I'm a great fan of Say All, and use it often in order to sit back and listen to long sections of a text document or an online news article. but when I'm writing and editing in a Word document, the control home key command, which is just the old Word keystroke for going to the beginning of the previous paragraph or the paragraph you're in, Jaws seems to take it as a Say All command instructing it to begin speaking from the top of the paragraph instead of going by sentence, which is howI'vegot Say All set in Configuration Manager. But jaws shouldn't be doing anything like this. It should just allow me to focus on the first word of the paragraph, which is all the Word key combination is supposed toachieve.And so if I want to begin reviewing or editing at that point, I havetodo something like immediately press something relevant to the situation like control right arrow to start moving one word at a time from the startofthe paragraph in order to keep this from happening. And if I'm not quick enough, Jaws just rushes ahead past where I wanted to be located, and I havetostop the headlong rush of the cursor and the speaking by hitting theControlkey or whatever, then try again to get to the top of the paragraph without Jaws rushing ahead reading again. I looked in the Text Processing menu in Configuration Manager and intheSay All menu, too, but could find nothing that seemed relevant to this issue. Am I missing something? 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