will your view is some what differant from the view i have. first m s did not create or make the gui interface, secondly the first gui they maid that was true 32 bit was o s 2. yes originally m s and i b m worked on that together. o s 2 included a 32 bit text based interface as well as a gui. no reason both could not coe exist. in addition many task such as the ones you put forth such as copying files is much easier from a commandline interface. copying a single file for a sited user may not be, but if your copying needs exceed a single file then all changes. lets say you want to copy only the bat files, or the txt files, or the doc files, in a folder with numerous other files, command line is much faster in those cases. believe me most system administrators no this. the real reason m s left out command line is because they wanted people to move to strickly gui apts because it benifitted them because they new the o s and kept much info from competitors. so they could get the jump on their competition. one reason office is number one, m s had the inside scoop prior to word perfect. so the m s operating system is more a reflection of what micro soft wants more so than the consumer. another thing m s did, they laid out the standard controls for applications, and guess who was the first to break the m s guidelines doing stuff m s recommended not doing. micro soft them self. one only need see that linux is on the rise due in part to microsoft lack of respect for what corporate clients want. security and command line. in addition ask your self this simple question, why did win 9 5 not create several backups of the registry. a person with an i q of 80 can see the obvious need for such a feature. secondly 98 and win me did do so but why does xp remove that feature from the o s. i just had a corrupted registry and system restore was unable to right the wrong, if they had not removed that feature it would have been a non issue. good thing i had a backup. in addition xp also removes some of the features found in system restore in windows me. like the ability to turnit off and on with out losing restore points. plus the ability to backup for longer periods of time. plus m s refuses to allow backup programs to be able to make copies of the xp o s with out paying through the nose to m s. one reason my stomp backup exec is easier for sighted users in windows me than it is in xp. now to tie this to jfw, well guess what m s did in win 95, they left out an off screen model and access to the o s and applications through such an off screen model. one might assume they had no knowledge of the off screen model or its benefits, except for one thing, they help write o s 2 which did have such a feature. plus the constant change of standard controls to non standard controls often requires more work on the part of the screen reader developer to put forth effort in maintaining groung on accessinstead of gaining ground. one last point m s has no requirements that one follow standard gui look and feel. i would actually welcome requirements and comditions on the part of applications put forth by m s. lets say during the install that m s puts up a warning that says this application does not meet with xp requirements put forth. proceed at your own risk. what could trigger such a message. for starters any program that does not allow end user to decide what goes into the system tray. plus any program that is totally unable to remove all components during a uninstall. hmm how about if the program fails to work with active accessability. plus standard pull down menu's. if ms did put forth such a message most of the applications would start to do these things because they would be afraid of loss of sales other wise. the main reason m s will never do this, is because many of their on applications would fail the test. due in part to the lack of meeting their own standards. one last point, many features in wndows are much harder than dos. to copy a program in dos one only need copy the folder. try that in windows and see if it works. plus the problems of resources in earlier windows, so why did m s allow apts to install in the system tray and registry if it would cause stability issues. trouble shooting these issues was a real pain for everyday users and nobody in dos days had to do that either. my guest if you never do any matenance on your p c and your sited its easier to use, but if you do recommended maitenance then the gui is probably no easier for the average end user than dos was. the hardest part of configuring dos applications had to do with memory management, and all these issues would not have existed if windows had a 32 bit text mode as well using flat memory that worked in extended memory like windows does. this is not to say that gui does not have its place, only to say gui in and of it self does not insure uniform layout, better access, or ease of use over text based apts. in fact its uncanny how many people have to reinstall windows from the ground up to solve their problems and then reinstall all software. trouble shooting issues in dos day was so much easier. bill p s my view on why they have the registry also differs. i personally suspect its to appease software companies because it does make copying a program harder and hence harder to steal with out access to the original software install disk. -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. 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