DOS and Windows
- From: "Cy" <cselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:05:23 -0600
Will,
While I loved the DOS days because you had a much more direct
communication path to the computer I have to agree with you about the
standardization of applications.
Most of the computer gurus were seat of the pants types and wanted to do
things "their way". Most of them thought they were Ford Motor Company
and had "A better idea" which left the end user in the dark most of the
time.
I do not think JAWS as we know it today would have ever been possible
without the standardization mandated by Windows.
Well, for that matter I don't think the micro would have ever advanced
to the point it has today without a standard operating system.
Just take a look at the world of mainframes. Most manufacturers have
fallen by the wayside because each clung to their way of doing business
and the vast majority of commercial applications could not run on more
than one platform.
While there may well have been better choices than Microsoft for an
operating system the same can be said for the IBM operating systems for
the mainframes.
While there also may well be a better choice than JAWS for a screen
reader JAWS seems to be, at least for the time being, the predominant
one in the United States and this does give us a good shot at
application accessibility.
I still have a few manuals for the old IBM office punched card machines
such as the 400/500 series calculating punches, interpreters and
printers but I sure as the Dickens do not wish to return to them. They
are just good old memories.
Cy, the Ancient One...
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Will Pearson
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 12:16 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
Maybe from a programatic viewpoint, although it would have been
difficult to gain the levels of app integration we see today without
things like the Registry. It might even have been possible to bring in
the metaphors and a GUI into DOS if you dropped out of text mode and
into graphics mode. However, Windows brought in a lot of convention on
interface design and layout. This has speeded up learning a new
application, as you know that, for example, open is always under the
File menu, deleted files always go to the recycle bin, and alt + F4
generally closes down an app main window. This level of convention and
coherent style wasn't found in DOS, and would have been difficult to
achieve. Most of the convention that was found in DOS, such as status
lines at the bottom of the screen, title bars for applications, and top
menus, came about as a result of people seeing their use in Windows and
seeing they were beneficial to the user experience.
The GUI also makes a whole lot of operations simpler, making the world
of computing accessible to more users. For most users, copying files is
as simple as positioning the mouse pointer over a picture, pressing the
left mouse button, and then moving that picture to within the bounding
rectangle representing the folder to which they desire to copy it. The
equivalent operation in DOS required the user to remember file names,
the exact path structure in which the file resided and the exact path to
which it was to be copied, and the command to copy files. This not only
imposed a greater cognitive workload than a drag and drop operation, but
was very intimidating for most users. Thus they didn't really want to
use a computer, at least a command line textual interface.
Additionally, complex data types, such as images are remembered better
by people than words, be they written or spoken.
Ultimately, the user experience was enriched significantly through a
move to Windows. It may have been possible through DOS, but not DOS in
it's text form.
Will Pearson
Researcher (Accessibility & HCI)
Sheffield Hallam University
Microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
For more information on the MVP program, go to:
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> dos could have made things just as easy and more stable had it been
persued.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 12:23 PM
> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
>
>
> Bruce, you'll make me pine for the good ol' simple days *smile*.
> Although the world's got a bit more complex, it's that complexity that
> has brought
a
> world of opportunity for us devs to integrate apps together, making
> things easier for the user to perform tasks.
>
> So, it's swings and roundabouts. By having a more complex world, we
> can create great applications packed full of useful things, and make
> sure you can access their functionality from the point at which you
> would want to. On the other hand, it makes deployment and
> uninstallation that bit
trickier,
> as you've not only got to delete the files, but also undo all the bits
> of integration that are usually kept in the registry. If the
> automatic uninstallation process works as it should, it's great, if it
> doesn't,
well,
> that's when we get problems.
>
> Do I really want to go back? Nah, Whilst DOS was simple, especially
> compared to programming Windows apps, Windows makes things easier for
> the user, and as a specialist in Human Computer Interaction, that's
> something
I
> like *smile*.
>
> Will Pearson
>
> Microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
> For more information on the MVP program, go to:
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Toews" <coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 3:19 PM
> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
>
>
> > No doubt about it. It's not at all like the old Dos days when you
> > could just delete the files and have done with it.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Toews
> > E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx
> > Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):
http://www.ogts.net
> > For the best oldies anywhere visit
http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> >
> > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Will Pearson wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Bruce,
> > >
> > > I think you're right, and with the complexity of modern software,
> > > I
> think
> > > you could say the same about pretty much all software packages
> > > about
at
> the
> > > moment.
> > >
> > > Will Pearson
> > >
> > > microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
> > > For more information about the MVP Program, go to:
> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bruce Toews" <coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:54 AM
> > > Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> > >
> > >
> > >> I believe that what everyone's trying to tell you without having
> > >> to
> admit
> > >> it is that we really don't know how to completely uninstall JAWS.
> > >>
> > >> Bruce
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Bruce Toews
> > >> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web Site
> > >> (including info on my weekly commentaries):
> http://www.ogts.net
> > >> For the best oldies anywhere visit
http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, John Miller wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I agree, when I sell or give away computers, I always format the
hard
> > > drive
> > >>> first. In fact, I have one for sale now and it's all freshly
> > >>> set,
> > > nothing
> > >>> but windows on it right now.
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Cy" <cselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:39 PM
> > >>> Subject: RE: completely uninstalling jaws
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Wil,
> > >>>> I would have to agree with this assessment. Unless you have
> > >>>> taken
the
> > >>>> time and trouble to run a piece of software which goes all
> > >>>> through
> your
> > >>>> hard drive and writes high values and then makes a second pass
> writing
> > >>>> low values to all supposidly unused areas of the drive several
brands
> > > of
> > >>>> software can "recover" the "accidently" deleted items from your
> drive.
> > >>>> I would format the drive and then install whatever software you
> wanted
> > >>>> the new person to have.
> > >>>> Cy, the Ancient One...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Wil James
> > >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:07 PM
> > >>>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> Subject: RE: completely uninstalling jaws
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If the system is being given away to a friend, school, church,
> > >>>> or whoever is not under your roof, reformatting is the best
> > >>>> solution.
> > > There
> > >>>> is software out there that can uncover supposedly deleted files
> you've
> > >>>> deleted.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --------------------
> > >>>> Do you want to know about new products when they come out? Do
> > >>>> you
> have
> > > a
> > >>>> product the blind community would benefit from? Send an empty
message
> > > to
> > >>>> new-products-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> -------------------
> > >>>> E-mail/MSN:
> > >>>> wil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> I C Q:
> > >>>> 95379501
> > >>>> --------------------
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bruce Toews
> > >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 5:52 PM
> > >>>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Well, the most foolproof way would be to reformat. I'm not
> > >>>> trying
to
> > >>>> sound cute, but if totality is what you're after that just
> > >>>> might be
> > > your
> > >>>> best bet.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bruce
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Bruce Toews
> > >>>> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web
> > >>>> Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):
> > >>>> http://www.ogts.net For
> the
> > >>>> best oldies anywhere visit http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, chevelle wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I know. That's why I wrote to the list. How does one go about
> > >>>>> completely removing all references to jaww from the hard
> > >>>>> drive.
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> From: "david poehlman"
<david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 6:44 AM
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Uninstallation of jaws does not remove the freedom scientific
keys
> > >>>>>> from the registry and depending on what os you are running,
> > >>>>>> it
may
> > >>>>>> not remove the video hooks. Uninstalling jaws, does also not
> remove
> > >>>>>> authorization.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Johnnie Apple Seed
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>> From: "chevelle" <chevelle33@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:08 PM
> > >>>>>> Subject: completely uninstalling jaws
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi, after you uninstall jaws from the add/remove or from the
tools
> > >>>>>> options of jaws. I think someone on this list said to
> > >>>>>> completely remove Jaws you have to remove something from the
> > >>>>>> registery. Is
> that
> > >>>>>> right? If so what do you remove from the registery to
> > >>>>>> completely remove jaws from the hard drive. Thanks.
> > >>>>>> --
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