Re: Correctly Installing JFW 5.844 Under WinXp Home??

Hi David,
Okay then, can you or anyone else on this list provide me with email
addresses and names of people inside FS who can take my input and not direct
it to the trash or lose it in some business or political struggle in the
process?  All I want to do is help, but am shut out and ignored no matter
what stance I take, nice or not nice.  It doesn't seem to matter any more.
I have over 20 years of experience that could be helping this situation but
FS doesn't make that easy.  I am not looking for, nor have I ever implied or
asked directly for, a job at FS, nor am I really interested any more in
working for somebody else.  The politics get in the way too much and nothing
can get accomplished, and I like things to get accomplished.  I'll gladly
accept this info and see if I can accomplish anything to fix some of these
problems.  But I can't help if no one at FS will let me, all I have left is
to gripe to anyone who will listen, and I'd prefer people not think of me
that way.  I'm not that kind of person, that's just what you and others may
think of me based on what you read, but it's not me and it's not the
impression I want to leave with you or others on this or any other list.

On a side note on uninstalling software: I don't know if you or others know
this, but most often when a software leaves behind part of itself in your
Program Files folder, there's often, but not always, a good reason for that.
Case in point: I have a database app I developed for a client that, when
uninstalled, leaves behind the database intentionally.  I did this as a
precautionary measure just in case they didn't have a backup of their
database.  It's a hit and miss call; one is going to upset some people doing
this and make others happy by it, so there's no winning with everybody.  But
anyway, that's why some apps may leave part of themselves behind; originally
I had this app completely removing itself, and the uninstaller did
completely remove it.  I suspect, but don't know for a fact, FS may leave
behind part of JAWS for the settings files.  It's sometimes an irritation to
need to go delete the app folder but as I said you can't please everybody,
and you have to do what you think is best overall.  Maybe you are a
programmer and understand all this, if so I apologize for telling you what
you already know.

Thanks for your comments and I'll try not to post any further comments about
FS to this list.
-Greg Epley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: Correctly Installing JFW 5.844 Under WinXp Home??


> Greg,
>
> A couple of notes on your message below should clear some of this up.  It
is
> always a good idea as you suggest to delete the folder off the system
after
> uninstalling it but it would be even better if this were not necessary as
> this should be done by the uninstaller as it is in many other apps.  I
know
> that some apps do not do this.
>
> One of the reasons you are seeing problems ironically is precicely because
> some of the underlying issues with jaws were fixed in this rather
extensive
> update from 5.0.812 believe it or not.  bells and whistles are progressing
> for several reasons, but the underlying fixes are recieving a good deal of
> attention as well.
>
> On beta testing and what freedom does with regard to what to implement,
you
> should be aware that beta testers only import, they do not make the final
> decisions on what gets into a release and much depends on whether or not
fs
> can replicate an issue in order to fix it so even if you send them a
service
> request, if they cannot replicate your issue, they cannot provide a fix
for
> it.
>
> These are surely interesting times in screen reader land and even though
one
> vendor or another will tell you that they are not release date driven,
they
> are and that can make it problematic to decide what to fix for this
release,
> what to ignore and what to shove down to the next release
> fixes/implementations.
>
> If you have issues with freedom scientific, I suggest you take it up with
> them.  This includes anyone who has issues with them.  If you feel
strongly
> that beta testing is not adaquately providing for your needs, perhaps you
> would ask to become  abeta tester.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Epley" <gregepley@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Correctly Installing JFW 5.844 Under WinXp Home??
>
>
> I am also on XP Home, have 4.51 installed, mostly as a fallback while FS
> gets more fixed in 5.  My original 5.0 release was 621.  I had some
problems
> going to 844 and was told by FS support to uninstall 5.00.844, including
> deleting it from the root of the drive so no trace of it was left.  SAPI 4
> Detect was locking up my machine, so then I find out I need to run JAWS
not
> as a service under XP, just long enough to use SAPI 4 Detect, then I can
run
> JAWS as a service again.  Only weird problem I've had so far is on a
laptop,
> 844 decided to just not speak at all on startup, then just as miraculously
> decided it would again.  I think FS needs to back off putting bells and
> whistles in the product and focus on fixing the problems for more
consistent
> results.  Makes me wonder how good the beta testers are, that so many
people
> seem to have so many odd problems.  I realize there are a large number of
> hardware and software issues to resolve, but I also think the results
could
> be a lot more consistent than they are.  It would also help if FS would
> develop some methodology of providing some suggested installation hints
one
> could read prior to installing the product and having one's system go
> haywire.
>
> My recommendation for your problem would be to completely uninstall your
5.0
> release, including deleting it off the hard drive, then reinstall 844.
You
> should be able to leave your 4.51 release as is.
> -Greg Epley
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bradford Trainham" <btrainham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:01 AM
> Subject: Correctly Installing JFW 5.844 Under WinXp Home??
>
>
> > Under WinXp Home, I have such poor result with Jaws 5.844 that I've
> > had to go
> > back to Jaws4.51.
> > Is there a way of cleanly/correctly installing Jaws 5.844 to make it
> > indeed
> > read the views properly, say for instance, in explorer, in Forte
> > Agent, etc?
> > Should I completely uninstall both Jaws 4.51 and Jaws 5, and then
> > start fresh
> > with 5?
> > I've seen references to Jaws 5.844 behaving badly, but it sounded like
> > the
> > problem was under Win98 Se.
> > Any good information would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Brad
> >
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