Re: Coding google docs

Good, but what will happen if they change the look or the structure of the site 
after few months and once again after few more. This good man will stay for 
hours to code something that will change after while and will need to do this 
again for another set of hours.
Since jaws stays for job access with speech my vote is for MS Access, because 
it's a work app and some people need it for a living . But maybe it's better FS 
to do their job. Anyway, I believe that work is more important than 
entertaining, because on the first place it gives you money to pay for it,, 
smile.

Negoslav

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Martyn 
  To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:34 AM
  Subject: Coding google docs


  No, everything you are saying is important to know. For the future of google 
docs it is important to know what direction things are heading in, how fast 
they do it, and whether they do anything at all. We don't know what side will 
win. This just argues that the use of google docs by colleges is unfair. I 
don't know if google would even do anything. Given that they somewhat make 
things accessible, what chances are that they make this possible. Would freedom 
scientific listen if we put this task on them?
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Marquette, Ed 
    To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:38 AM
    Subject: RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app


    Thanks for sharing this.  I was unaware that NFB had taken on Google Docs 
indirectly by taking on the universities that apparently mandate it.  I think 
that may have been the same strategy employed against the Kindle.  There some 
progress was made -- though much slower than would have been ideal.  
Nevertheless, YEA for the NFB!
    I reviewed the video which purports to demonstrate the challenges of using 
Google Docs with a screen reader.  The demonstration uses JAWS 12.  It would 
have been a little more effective had the demonstration pointed out that the 
help section entitled "Access with a Screen Reader" actually gives bogus 
instructions.  The demonstrator merely mentions that, by pressing Alt, the user 
is taken to the browser menu and not the applications menu.  The "help" section 
specifically warns against that and encourages the user to hit "ESCAPE" to 
access he menus.  The problem is that the ESCAPE key, in fact, does not take 
the user to any menus.  As it stands, the video could be criticized because the 
person doing the demonstration apparently didn't read the "access with a screen 
reader" text in the help section.  Of course, I may be too critical.  After 
all, this presumably wasn't produced as an exhibit for a jury.  
    It is one thing to offer up an inaccessible application.  It is something 
else (and much worse) to offer up an application which suggests it may be 
accessible, but it is not.
    Who knows?  Perhaps officials at New York University and Northwestern, the 
universities taken on by the NFB,  actually took accessibility into account 
and, seeing a whole section in the help system devoted to access using a screen 
reader, concluded, erroneously, that Google Docs was accessible.
     You are all probably sick of hearing me go on and on about Google and 
Google Docs.  I'll shut up now.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Charles
      Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:34 PM
      To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app


      Hi,

      In a news release dated 3/15/2011 the NFB has filed a complaint against 
two Universities namely NEW York University and Northwestern University 
concerning their adopting of software that is not accessible to the blind. 

      In their  request to investigate made to the  department of Justice Civil 
Rights Department the NFB states the adopting  of Google apps for education 
which includes   Google docs, g mail, etc;, discriminates against blind staff 
and students.

      A full copy of the news release can be found at: www.nfb.org  

      Charles



      From: Marquette, Ed 
      Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:30 AM
      To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      Subject: RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app


      OK.
      This "coding for an application" raises a good point.  Indeed, Internet 
Explorer, FireFox, and the like are applications; however, Websites have 
progressed well beyond what we think of as traditional Websites.
      More and more, I'm seeing applications migrate away from the 
client/server model, where something is installed on a local PC, to Web-based 
applications, where the application resides remotely and is only accessed 
through the browser.
      For instance, I use a Web application at my office which is a pretty 
sophisticated document management system.
      By that, I mean only a shadow of a Microsoft Office document resides on 
the local drive (and only for emergency back-up purposes).  The real files are 
not even located on a remote server that our firm owns.  Instead, they reside 
somewhere in a mountain cave in Utah.
      When I want to access, search for, or save a document, Internet Explorer 
runs a Web application that looks up or stores the document with a whole range 
of information (e.g., author, creation date, last edit date, client number, 
matter number, document name, type of law, type of document, and selected key 
words.).  The look-up operates much like a Google search operates or, in the 
alternative, by field look-up.
      There are competitive applications, but they all operate on the 
client/server model.
      The point is that more and more of these Web applications are appearing.  
Fortunately, the one referenced above is pretty well behaved, particularly with 
JAWS and its quick keys, or whatever they are called.
      It does not, however, respond all that well to scripts.  That, however, 
may be my ineptitude as a script writer, though the scripts I wrote were hardly 
more than macros, i.e., a series of keystrokes.
      I would certainly like to see an accomplished script writer tackle, or 
try to tackle, a Web application of general applicability.
      I cannot think of an application with more general applicability than 
Google Docs, but I do have my own selfish objectives that, in the interest of 
full disclosure, I need to reveal.  Still, a free application that can be 
shared in a collaborative way with power that approaches Microsoft Office would 
be pretty important to lots of people.
      Google Docs is free.  Microsoft Office doesn't come cheap.
      Google Docs, however, may simply be too great a challenge.  After all, 
all the screen reader people seem to have given up on it.




------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Bob W
        Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:48 AM
        To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app


        Peter, here's my thinking and I hope others will correct me if I'm 
wrong.
        A website is not an application. 
        the applications involved would be your browser--i.e. or firefox, or 
chrome.

        For that matter, google docs would not be an application either.

        Just my  thoughts.

        Bob

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that 
thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams  

          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Peter Holdstock 
          To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:06 AM
          Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app


          Hi, for many blind people dating is quite difficult and many dating 
websites don’t seem too accessible, and I have seen a few posts from people 
trying to get various websites working. I’d be very grateful if the website 
www.plentyoffish.com was made accessible in some way. It is pretty accessible 
at the mom            ent so shouldn’t require too much work, but there are a 
lot of extra links and information you have to try and bypass to get to the 
useful stuff.

          I may be the only one who wants that website accessible, but I hope 
not and I think lots would benefit from a fully accessible dating site where 
it’s not just disabled people.

          Peter

          Thanks.

          Peter

          From: John Martyn 
          Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 8:33 AM
          To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; jaws-users-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          Subject: Coding for a new jaws accessible app

          Hi folks,
          As my 32nd birthday approaches, I think I am going to make a habit of 
picking one new application per year to make jaws accessible. Picking Rhapsody 
was not an easy task, but it taught me many things about an application that 
seems next to impossible to make behave. I am taking off this summer from 
school and will have the time to code a new application. Rhapsody Blind was a 
test to see if I could pull it off, and it worked. I selfishly chose the first 
one, now I'm looking for the popular vote on what you might want. I probably 
won't start until this semester is over at the end of May, so this gives plenty 
of time to decide. It would be a good idea to chat among each other and find 
out what is needed or just plain want for entertainment purposes. So, let's 
open up the floor and hear some suggestions.
          Thanks,
          John Martyn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR 
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, 
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO 
BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING 
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named 
recipient(s) above and may contain information 
      that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by 
applicable law. If you have received this 
      message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete 
this E-mail message. 
      Thank you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other related posts: