all routers have a firewall because all use nat. hubs that do similar functions do not. the fire wall in a router is incoming protection and offers no outgoing protection. so its a good idea to add sy gate. software fire walls work in both directions. or most do. at one time black ice did not offer out going protection and its one reason www.grc.com did not recommend it at one time. a side note some modems have fire walls in them and its best to avoid this type of dsl or cable modem because often they have no flexibility to control access to ports. so if you have issues with m s n for instance their is no fix. bill -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx