[jawsscripts] Re: Saying two messages with a specific period of silence in between
- From: Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:57:29 -0400 (EDT)
While a company certainly has competing priorities, I think there has been
a consistent pattern of devoting relatively little attention to the needs
of JAWS scripters over the years. I did not say no attention, but the
amount has been frustratingly little and baffling given that scriptability
has been one of the keystones by which JAWS has distinguished itself from
the competition. For example, there is no reliable channel for getting
scripting support, scripting documentation lacks examples and "what's new"
lists, FS newsletters hardly address scripting topics, and little is done
to convene FS developers at blindness conventions.
I would think that if someone took the time to gather suggestions from
the JAWS scripting list (the only viable one, which has no FS
representative participating), at least a written acknowledgement of some
kind would be in order. Unfortunately though, what I experienced was not
an anomaly, but part of the pattern. Besides calling the scripting
reference information "Freedom Scientific Developer Network" (fsdn.chm),
what has the company done to facilitate such a network?
Regards,
Jamal
On
Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Doug Lee wrote:
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:59:43 -0400
> From: Doug Lee <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Saying two messages with a specific period of
> silence in between
>
> I'm frankly rather startled at the negative sentiments in this thread,
> and at the predictions in the message I'm answering. It's hard to
> answer the raised points within the list topic, but I can say this
> much: I've seen requested JAWS scripting features implemented
> occasionally without first seeing a personal response to a suggestion,
> so lack of email does not prove lack of attention. It's also true,
> though, that most products are driven more by end-user sentiments and
> needs than by developer needs, which means in the case of JAWS that
> scripting feature requests would often naturally land below
> user-visible feature requests in priority. It can be argued of
> course, and I've argued this myself, that scripting feature requests,
> at least good ones, should result in end-user features simply by
> making them more possible; but again, in a sufficiently large company,
> it is pretty normal for that viewpoint to be hard to sell.
>
> Last point: If you write and maintain scripts for a very popular
> program, like Winamp or Skype or somesuch, you probably know how
> it feels to get a lot of different feature requests at once. Each
> person will naturally feel his or her request is important, and if
> you don't get it done, that person will often feel ignored. The
> fact that you implemented 15 out of 20 requests in a short time
> does not change this, neither does the fact that you had no more
> time to use for implementing requests. There will be times when
> you receive a request, and you have three choices of what to do
> right then: Write a response to the request, implement the requested
> feature, or deal with a higher-priority item. This is a supply-and-deman=
d
> problem of a sort, and it applies to JAWS itself, and its features,
> just as much as to a set of scripts one of us might maintain. I'm
> not surprised that the majority of users don't think of things this
> way, but I admit I'm a little surprised to see this view lost on a
> scripting list.
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:40:28AM -0700, Matthew2007 wrote:
> Yes, I agree on all points. From a business perspective its very, very po=
or
> form to ask for suggestions to improve on your product then completely
> ignore the suggestions. Not acknowledging a requested suggestion will lea=
d
> to apathy on the suggestur/customer's behalf. The person sending the
> suggestion will e-mail their information and feel very disappointed if th=
ey
> spent so much time thinking of ways in which the product will benefit onl=
y
> to find they walk away feeling neglected and ultimately feeling bad affec=
t
> towards the company. The result is the slow end to all user suggestions,
> which means the company will lose an avenue of user feedback and left to
> guess at what the "typical" user wants in a product. Its one thing to
> logically conclude that a product has shortcomings, but if emotion is the
> basis of a conclusion, it will take much more effort to turn the person
> around as, I dare say--and can prove, most people think with their emotio=
ns
> than with their minds though most people are under the impression of the
> opposite. You would think FS would know this basic human nature. Besides,
> how hard is it to send a type of simple form letter reply via e-mail? I'm
> telling you guys, unless they make some drastic obvious changes, I'd say
> they have maybe 7 or 8 years before they throw in the towel. I believe Te=
d
> Henter was smart to see that jaws had for the most part hit its zenith an=
d
> got out with a fat check.
>
> Matthew
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:08 AM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Saying two messages with a specific period of
> silence in between
>
>
> >I suggested adding such a function, e.g., named IsJAWSSpeaking(), as wel=
l
> > as several other suggestions I collected from this list a year or so ag=
o.
> > I sent the collection of scripting related suggestions to a few differe=
nt,
> > relevant contacts at FS. I received no response -- not even a polite b=
ut
> > non-substantive"thank you for your suggestions which we will consider .=
=2E."
> > It was quite discouraging. Personally, I have found GW micro
> > management/developers to be much more responsive to feedback and
> > suggestions from scripters as they have been developing Window-Eyes 7.0=
=2E
> > I still value JAWS and find pros and cons between the two screen
> > readers. If FS does not start listening and responding to developers,
> > however, I think it will lose significant ground to the up and coming
> > competition.
> >
> > Jamal
> > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Geoff Chapman wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:18:34 +1000
> >> From: Geoff Chapman <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Reply-To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Saying two messages with a specific period =
of
> >> silence in between
> >>
> >> Wow, I'm seriously surprised jaws doesn't already include some
> >> logic/dece=3D
> > nt
> >> indexing functions like this doug. are you in constant communication w=
ith
> >> Erric and developers about this kind of thing? surely you guys are REA=
LLY
> >> WHAT SHOULD BE DRIVING DEVELOPER AND MARKETING SCHEDULES AS REGARDS
> >> IMPROVEMENT TO THE JAWS ScreenReader in general ought not you?
> >>
> >> you are the ones that have the real knowledge of what stuff needs to b=
e
> >> i=3D
> > n
> >> there to make what needs to happen, happen.
> >>
> >> From: "Doug Lee" <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:00 AM
> >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Saying two messages with a specific period =
of
> >> silence in between
> >>
> >>
> >> > This is a very clever suggestion actually, and one I think I tried
> >> > once but forgot about. It may help, but I still doubt it will work =
as
> >> > well as you'd like. The SayAll process does not actually keep code
> >> > execution in precise sync with speech. You can stop SayAll on an
> >> > exact word, but this is actually done by retreating to that word
> >> > rather than literally catching JAWS in the act of saying it.
> >> >
> >> > The SayAll system does prove, however, that JAWS internally has enou=
gh
> >> > information to implement something like I suggested before, direct
> >> > access to synthesizer indexing functionality.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:03:23PM -0400, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
> >> > This is a hack, but you can do a SayAll in the user buffer, and tell
> >> > when it completes with the SayAllStoppedEvent function. You could
> >> > either speak the second message within that function, or use that ev=
ent
> >> > handler to set a global variable indicating that a SayAll has stoppe=
d.
> >> > Your script would go into a While loop testing the global variable
> >> > before exiting.
> >> >
> >> > Jamal
> >> > On Sat, 12 Jul 2008, Kamil wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Return-Path: <jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> >> > > Subject: [jawsscripts] Saying two messages with a specific period =
of
> >> > > silence in between
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> >> > > Hi folks,
> >> > >
> >> > > I would like JAWS to say two messages with exactly two-second
> >> > > silence=3D
> > in
> >> > > between.
> >> > > Neither Delay (20), nor twenty Pause () commands works,
> >> > > since both starts right after the first message is sent to the TTS=
,
> >> > > n=3D
> > ot
> >> w=3D3D
> >> > hen
> >> > > it's completely spoken.
> >> > > I tried counting number of words in the first message,
> >> > > and calculating the time needed for it to be completely spoken usi=
ng
> >> > > =3D
> > the
> >> > > current speech rate.
> >> > > The result varies based on the total number of sylabels in the
> >> > > messag=3D
> > e.
> >> > >
> >> > > Can you think of a better solution?
> >> > > As far as I know, there is no function such as TtsIsDoneEvent or
> >> IsTtsBus=3D3D
> >> > y.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > >
> >> > > Camille
> >> > >
> >> > > __________=3D3DA0
> >> > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> > > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >> > >
> >> > __________?
> >> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
> >> > SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
> >> > mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> >> > "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
> >> > it was done." --Helen Keller
> >> > __________
> >> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >> >
> >>
> >> __________=3DA0
> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >>
> > __________
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
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> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 3269 (20080715) Information __________
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> >
>
> __________?
> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>
> --
> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
> it was done." --Helen Keller
> __________=A0
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
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