I think it was pretty clear Chris made that comment tongue in cheek. I'd suggest taking a step back before assuming every comment is a criticism and replying with such negativity. To be honest, I thought it was a worthwhile correction, although in reading deeper into the email, it was clear it was just a typo. Since not everyone reads every line of every message, I still thought it was a valuable correction and done in a light hearted way. On 17/11/11 09:18, Andre Williams wrote: > Wow, you can't find anything better to do with yourself than make these > completely insignificant corrections? > > Someone out there is probably feeling sorry for you. > > Say goodbye. > > A-W > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:08 AM > Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts > > > uh it's hot spot clicker, not slicker. *LOL* > although it is pretty slick. > > At 11:02 PM 11/16/2011, you wrote: >> Regarding HotSpotSlicker... This message alone has tons of great >> info! Thank >> you tremendously Jeff for taking the time to convey this information. >> >> I'm gonna give Jackie's suggestion a shot first and hopefully I >> will get >> some positive results. If not I'll try the more automated >> HotSpotClicker >> utility and hopefully it will give me a better idea as to what is >> happening >> in Jaws' brain. >> >> By the way, does anyone know what programming language was used to >> write >> jaws? >> >> A-W >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:18 PM >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts >> >> >> HI. >> >> I was fortunate enough to be in on the ground floor of significant >> testing/development of hsc with Jim Snowbarger, one seriously >> compitent >> scripter in my view, >> back in 2005/2006, >> and from my understanding, that was exactly it's purpose! >> As Christopher highlights it below. >> >> I had *exactly* the same desires as A W had, and somehow stumbled >> upon this >> app that Jim had constructed, in it's very early stages. And got sooo >> excited at what I saw were it's possibilities, that I contacted >> him to see >> if i could inspire further development/extension. and Jim graciously >> responded! ... yeah. it turned into a bit of a >> monsterously feature-rich >> incredibly funky tool! >> >> Unfortunately, I kinda moved out of the music industry several >> years back >> now, >> where the applications we wanted to use, were sooo jaws >> unfriendly, that hsc >> really became an essential tool for being able to access/drive >> some of the >> pluggins we wanted to use in that environ, >> to facilitate locating/clicking in specific areas on the often totally >> graphical, and thus blank to jaws cursor, >> front-ends of these things. >> >> So unfortunately I've been now several years out of the hsc >> headspace. so >> am far less useful now as to it's day-to-day operation/state, than I >> would've been back in 2006. >> Like most software, my oppinion is that it's got it's learning >> curve, and >> quirky bits that take a bit of getting one's head around, >> But, having now delvved into more scripting language than I knew >> back in >> 2005 when I first started with Jim on this amazing tool, I still >> think it's >> caveats are simpler to learn to navigate, than the raw scripting >> language >> itself, for solving the types of problems your wanting to solve Andre. >> >> So, in other words, I'd personally encourage you to dig into this >> tool, if >> your interested in automation with custom keystrokes within jaws, >> which it >> sounds like you pretty much are. >> >> It doesn't get talked about up here much, because the real >> scripter types, >> who know how to use the language, obviously prefer to utilize their >> individual functions/script commands, to specifically meet the >> requirements >> of each situation, as you heard doug describe. >> But, for esssentially non-programmery types, who want a menu >> driven front >> end first, to then be able to easily tweak the resultant hotspot >> definition >> as needed afterwards, >> and who can still follow basic logic, I fully believe hsc is an >> incredibly >> useful and much needed mid-ground approach. >> And easier, in my view, than getting one's head around gobs of >> functions in >> order to do very simple tasks, as Andre points out. >> >> You have no doubt already read comparison's with hsc and frame >> manager, in >> the documentation Andre. >> It's worth thus pointing out, that although hsc does significantly, >> significantly more than frames manager ever did, and in my view >> has a much easier way of manually editing each line of code that it >> generates than the frames manager definitions, >> within the hsc definition editor, reached after instalation, with >> AltControlShiftF4, >> The builtin frames manager in jaws itself, can also be made to do >> some of >> the things your talking about. particularly if the text of the >> stuff you >> wanna click on, is already visible to the jaws cursor, and thus the >> FindString type commands, that presumably both frames manager and hsc >> functionality both employ, can be used to locate the stuff you >> wanna click >> on. >> >> So just to make you aware of that. >> And, of course because frames manager does less, it's arguably a >> bit simpler >> to learn. I started with that myself. >> But, it has it's limitations, and I believe hsc is just a >> fantastic tool for >> the types of customizations your talking about. >> >> I can remember/will tell you that The single most primary caveat, >> that most >> readily, "breaks," hotspot clicker from >> successfully/reliably clicking on >> it's assigned, "spot," is, insufficient understanding/handling, of >> the part >> of the spot creation wizard which asks the user to remove dynamic >> information from the titleBars of up to, oh goodness, maybe as >> many as 4, >> different window types, that it might deem relevant to the spot your >> creating. >> I.e. Application window, TopLevel Window, RealWindow, and >> CurrentWindow. >> This is called the, "window validation criteria." >> Frames Manager has it as well. >> >> >> And, although to the uninitiated, it can initialy appear as just an >> irrelevant pain that one would prefer not to have to deal with, >> as it's name suggests, it's actual purpose is, to help insure, >> that one >> doesn't just perform a, blind, mouseClick, at a given spot, >> without first >> seeking to validate that the environment that was present when you >> defined >> the spot, is still sufficiently there, to warrant a fair shot at >> clicking >> there. >> , that the result you initially defined the spot to bring about, >> at spot >> definition time, >> is still gunna be valid, to bring about again, >> at spot activation time. >> i.e. when you hit your hotkey for the click. >> So, it's kinda a good thing, but it doesn't appear like that when >> you first >> get into hsc. >> >> However, of course, the other side of this spectrum that your juggling >> against, is that if the environment validation criteria, is left too >> strict/tight, >> then the least change in any one of the windowNames, which might >> not at all >> mean that your spot has become inOpperable, >> will invalidate the match criteria, and hsc will think it's no >> longer safe >> to click there, and will prevent you from doing so. bringing a, >> "Donk," >> sound from your computer, and the dreaded "hotspot failed," message. >> and if you leave all your windowNames validation criteria totally >> unedited, >> as the hotspot wizard first presents them to you, almost certainly >> your spot >> will fail the very next time you open your app, since many legitimate >> changes can happen in those window names, which may not invalidate >> your spot >>from doing what it was designed for. >> >> If that makes sense. I'm not very adept at explaining complex >> concepts and >> making them simple to understand. I apologize for this. >> >> So Now the thing is, it's pretty crucial, to remove anything from >> each of >> these window types, during the hotspot creation wizard. This is >> particularly >> relevant for the first spot you define, since it tries to, >> "learn,"/remember, the answers given in the definition of the >> first spot in >> a given environment, if it finds similar criteria in subsequent >> hotspots, >> defined in that same environment. >> notice I'm using the term, "spots," and, "hotspots," >> interchangeably here. >> They mean the same thing. >> >> now there's two primary caveats to be aware of in doing this. >> one simple one is, that you need to watch that your sometimes >> quite lengthy >> windowName/title, might extend over two lines, rather than one. so >> make sure >> you utilize control+Home and control+end, rather than just home >> and end, >> whilst navigating the windowName your trimming. >> >> The Second slightly more complex problem, is, of course, that you >> may not >> necessarily really know, what criteria is going to remain >> constant, and what >> not, in your windowNames, as you are messing around in your >> application. >> >> Thus making it rather difficult to really know, what to remove, >> and what to >> leave alone. >> >> >> So, my basic rule of thumb for newbys at this, is, to remove >> anything from >> these window names, that you aren't absolutely confident will be >> there, >> during all the times you want your click to actualy work. >> And if your unsure, then delete whatever your unsure of. >> e.g. I almost always recommend deleting the entire CurrentWindowName, >> sometimes abbreviated in hsc to just, WindowName, because I've >> found that >> this can change so readily, that it often provides more headaches >> than joys, >> to leave anything in there as part of validation criteria. >> >> Secondly, if you are wanting hsc to look for a particular >> word/phrase to >> insure greater reliability for your click spot, if such is visible >> to jaws >> cursor, >> then after obviously placing the jaws cursor at the spot you want >> to define, >> and over one of the words, activate the Graphics/Words hotspot >> creation >> wizard, using altControlShiftG, rather than the standard >> AltControlShiftA, >> wizard. This will then take into account the word or graphic name >> which may >> be under the jaws cursor, and ask you questions about how you'd >> like hsc to >> treat this. >> usually searching from topDown, is best, but there may be >> situations where >> the spot is near the bottom of a window, that you'd prefer hsc to >> search >> bottom up, which you can also choose. >> Tip: although the wizard may often ask you only about a single >> word, you can >> define this to be a longer phrase after the fact, by delving into the >> definition for that spot, after completion of the wizard. >> You'll find a whole bunch of after-the-fact twekable stuff in >> there, which >> I'm sure the rather comprehensive documentation will explain in >> detail for >> you if desired. >> >> oh there's just a million and 1 things I could rave on and on >> about, in the >> mastering of hsc. But I think that should do for starters. >> >> I will just conclude though, by saying that integration of hsc >> into the >> internet explorer environment, is not nearly as simple, as just >> using it in >> a local application. for which it was initially designed. >> for obvious reasons. and this is treated a little in the >> documentation. >> There's a bunch of other things you need to be aware of, when >> doing spots in >> an app such as internet explorer, given that it can host just sooo >> many >> webpage environments, all potentially requiring different validaition >> criteria, and maybe a separate hotspot set for each page, which >> you'd then >> ultimately like it to load automatically when it detected that >> webpage. rah >> rah rah. >> So I'm not going into that one now. >> >> happy clicking. >> >> And perhaps ask your questions one by one, as you delve into hsc >> more as you >> try things. if you decide it's something you'd like to learn to >> master. >> just don't get too frustrated if things don't work out as you expect >> straight away. like all software really, specially for us, it's a >> slower >> learning curve to getting the result you want, than you wish it >> was. But, I >> can tell you from personal experience, I think hsc is a very very >> funky >> tool, the stuff it can do, once you learn how to drive it well. >> and realy >> dig into it. >> I believe it can permit blind user access to drive stuff that would be >> almost impossible without it, in some applications. >> >> >> Geoff Chapman. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain@xxxxxxxxx> >> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:31 AM >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts >> >> >>> I wonder if Hot Spot Clicker from http://hotspotclicker.org/ >> will help >>> with Andre's situation. I'm not sure, since I haven't used it >> myself, >>> but it looks like it's purpose is to make clicking on different >> areas of >>> the screen easier and without having to resort to scripting. >>> >>> On 16/11/11 13:20, Doug Lee wrote: >>>> Your frustration is understandable, but the basic problem is that >>>> application developers use many different methods of >> displaying the >>>> various parts of their applications, and each method can have >>>> different accessibility characteristics. In short, each type of >>>> control in an application can require its own accessibility >> solution. >>>> Freedom Scientific writes solutions to what it considers the most >>>> common control types, but they simply can't predict or manage all >>>> possible situations that happen out there. Since JAWS is >> scriptable, >>>> others can help out by coding for more situations; but still, more >>>> accessibility issues exist than there are capable hands to address >>>> them. >>>> >>>> So in summary, the fact that JAWS can't natively handle all the >>>> applications you may use is as lamentable as it is inevitable. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:09:41AM -0800, Andre Williams wrote: >>>> Yes, I think this is the problem with all this scripting >> business. Look >>>> at >>>> the amount of stuff you listed which one has to learn to get >> started. If >>>> this is your work then this is something that has to be >> learned, but if >>>> you >>>> are coming at this from the perspective of the regular user >> needing >>>> simple >>>> script features not already existing in jaws, then one must >> now take >>>> hours >>>> and hours of personal time to learn this stuff as well as >> paying for >>>> tutorials and stuff. I just want to make jaws quickly click on >> a tab on >>>> my >>>> screen, but it appears I have to learn tons of scripting >> first. I am not >>>> directing my comments at you Jacky, I'm only conveying my >> frustration >>>> with >>>> what seems like a process that should not be this difficult. I >> already >>>> paid >>>> lots for jaws so I don't plan on continuing to sink more money >> into it. >>>> >>>> Just so I have a better perspective of the investment of time, >> what will >>>> go >>>> into writing a script that will make jaws click on a specific >> tab with a >>>> press of a hotkey? I've already studied the layout of the >> screen a bit >>>> and >>>> found that the tabs don't move, nor do the other items I want >> to access >>>> with >>>> hotkeys. Can this type of script be written easily, or do I >> have to learn >>>> all the things Jacky suggested? >>>> >>>> A-W >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jackie McBride" <abletec@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:49 AM >>>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts >>>> >>>> >>>> Andre, there are many ways, depending on the app. Moving to a >> window >>>> handle or control ID, doing a findstring(), Looking for a >> particular >>>> window class & control ID combination, going thru the window >> or object >>>> hierarchy--those are just a few for starters. I can't really >> be more >>>> definitive because, as I said, it really depends on the >> application & >>>> how it's structured. >>>> >>>> I'd recommend u study the basics of scripting manual included >> in the >>>> Jaws help topics, as well as some of the jaws scripts which are >>>> located in the settings/enu directory of your jaws folder. My >>>> scripting 101 materials are also available for purchase at: >>>> www.screenreaderscripting.com >>>> if u feel the other materials aren't sufficient to meet your >> needs. >>>> >>>> On 11/16/11, Andre Williams <andre.williams.1965@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> HI all, >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know of a more elegant manner of writing a script >> than >>>>> specifying every command? I'm looking to refine the >> accessibility of >>>>> WordWeb >>>>> a bit more and would like to not have to use script text such as >>>>> page up >>>>> page up >>>>> home >>>>> next word >>>>> next word >>>>> say word >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible to somehow take the jaws cursor to a specific >> icon or >>>>> point >>>>> on the screen then hit a hotkey to tell Jaws that this is the >> object I >>>>> want >>>>> to use in my script? >>>>> >>>>> For example, WordWeb has several tabs. One of these tabs is >> used to read >>>>> the >>>>> Wikipedia article for the word one is wanting to define. I >> would like to >>>>> use >>>>> the jaws scripting functions or keyboard commands to write a >> script that >>>>> makes jaws jump directly to this desired Wikipedia tab object >> without >>>>> all >>>>> the PageUp (), Home (), NextWord () commands. >>>>> >>>>> If this is possible, please help a brotha out and let me know >> how this >>>>> can >>>>> be done. >>>>> >>>>> A-W >>>>> >>>>> __________??? >>>>> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Christopher (CJ) >>> chaltain@xxxxxxxxx >>> __________� >>> >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >>> >> >> __________� >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> __________� >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > > > -------------------------------------------------- > CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING > Clear True Sound > www.ctsmastering.com > and be sure to "like us" on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698 > > __________� > > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > > __________� > > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain@xxxxxxxxx __________� View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts