Wow, you can't find anything better to do with yourself than make these completely insignificant corrections? Someone out there is probably feeling sorry for you. Say goodbye. A-W ---- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@xxxxxxxxx> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:08 AM Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts uh it's hot spot clicker, not slicker. *LOL* although it is pretty slick. At 11:02 PM 11/16/2011, you wrote: >Regarding HotSpotSlicker... This message alone has tons of great >info! Thank >you tremendously Jeff for taking the time to convey this information. > >I'm gonna give Jackie's suggestion a shot first and hopefully I >will get >some positive results. If not I'll try the more automated >HotSpotClicker >utility and hopefully it will give me a better idea as to what is >happening >in Jaws' brain. > >By the way, does anyone know what programming language was used to >write >jaws? > >A-W > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:18 PM >Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts > > >HI. > >I was fortunate enough to be in on the ground floor of significant >testing/development of hsc with Jim Snowbarger, one seriously >compitent >scripter in my view, >back in 2005/2006, >and from my understanding, that was exactly it's purpose! >As Christopher highlights it below. > >I had *exactly* the same desires as A W had, and somehow stumbled >upon this >app that Jim had constructed, in it's very early stages. And got sooo >excited at what I saw were it's possibilities, that I contacted >him to see >if i could inspire further development/extension. and Jim graciously >responded! ... yeah. it turned into a bit of a >monsterously feature-rich >incredibly funky tool! > >Unfortunately, I kinda moved out of the music industry several >years back >now, >where the applications we wanted to use, were sooo jaws >unfriendly, that hsc >really became an essential tool for being able to access/drive >some of the >pluggins we wanted to use in that environ, >to facilitate locating/clicking in specific areas on the often totally >graphical, and thus blank to jaws cursor, > front-ends of these things. > >So unfortunately I've been now several years out of the hsc >headspace. so >am far less useful now as to it's day-to-day operation/state, than I >would've been back in 2006. >Like most software, my oppinion is that it's got it's learning >curve, and >quirky bits that take a bit of getting one's head around, >But, having now delvved into more scripting language than I knew >back in >2005 when I first started with Jim on this amazing tool, I still >think it's >caveats are simpler to learn to navigate, than the raw scripting >language >itself, for solving the types of problems your wanting to solve Andre. > >So, in other words, I'd personally encourage you to dig into this >tool, if >your interested in automation with custom keystrokes within jaws, >which it >sounds like you pretty much are. > >It doesn't get talked about up here much, because the real >scripter types, >who know how to use the language, obviously prefer to utilize their >individual functions/script commands, to specifically meet the >requirements >of each situation, as you heard doug describe. >But, for esssentially non-programmery types, who want a menu >driven front >end first, to then be able to easily tweak the resultant hotspot >definition >as needed afterwards, >and who can still follow basic logic, I fully believe hsc is an >incredibly >useful and much needed mid-ground approach. >And easier, in my view, than getting one's head around gobs of >functions in >order to do very simple tasks, as Andre points out. > >You have no doubt already read comparison's with hsc and frame >manager, in >the documentation Andre. >It's worth thus pointing out, that although hsc does significantly, >significantly more than frames manager ever did, and in my view >has a much easier way of manually editing each line of code that it >generates than the frames manager definitions, >within the hsc definition editor, reached after instalation, with >AltControlShiftF4, >The builtin frames manager in jaws itself, can also be made to do >some of >the things your talking about. particularly if the text of the >stuff you >wanna click on, is already visible to the jaws cursor, and thus the >FindString type commands, that presumably both frames manager and hsc >functionality both employ, can be used to locate the stuff you >wanna click >on. > >So just to make you aware of that. >And, of course because frames manager does less, it's arguably a >bit simpler >to learn. I started with that myself. >But, it has it's limitations, and I believe hsc is just a >fantastic tool for >the types of customizations your talking about. > >I can remember/will tell you that The single most primary caveat, >that most >readily, "breaks," hotspot clicker from >successfully/reliably clicking on >it's assigned, "spot," is, insufficient understanding/handling, of >the part >of the spot creation wizard which asks the user to remove dynamic >information from the titleBars of up to, oh goodness, maybe as >many as 4, >different window types, that it might deem relevant to the spot your >creating. >I.e. Application window, TopLevel Window, RealWindow, and >CurrentWindow. >This is called the, "window validation criteria." >Frames Manager has it as well. > > >And, although to the uninitiated, it can initialy appear as just an >irrelevant pain that one would prefer not to have to deal with, >as it's name suggests, it's actual purpose is, to help insure, >that one >doesn't just perform a, blind, mouseClick, at a given spot, >without first >seeking to validate that the environment that was present when you >defined >the spot, is still sufficiently there, to warrant a fair shot at >clicking >there. >, that the result you initially defined the spot to bring about, >at spot >definition time, >is still gunna be valid, to bring about again, >at spot activation time. >i.e. when you hit your hotkey for the click. >So, it's kinda a good thing, but it doesn't appear like that when >you first >get into hsc. > >However, of course, the other side of this spectrum that your juggling >against, is that if the environment validation criteria, is left too >strict/tight, >then the least change in any one of the windowNames, which might >not at all >mean that your spot has become inOpperable, >will invalidate the match criteria, and hsc will think it's no >longer safe >to click there, and will prevent you from doing so. bringing a, >"Donk," >sound from your computer, and the dreaded "hotspot failed," message. >and if you leave all your windowNames validation criteria totally >unedited, >as the hotspot wizard first presents them to you, almost certainly >your spot >will fail the very next time you open your app, since many legitimate >changes can happen in those window names, which may not invalidate >your spot >from doing what it was designed for. > >If that makes sense. I'm not very adept at explaining complex >concepts and >making them simple to understand. I apologize for this. > >So Now the thing is, it's pretty crucial, to remove anything from >each of >these window types, during the hotspot creation wizard. This is >particularly >relevant for the first spot you define, since it tries to, >"learn,"/remember, the answers given in the definition of the >first spot in >a given environment, if it finds similar criteria in subsequent >hotspots, >defined in that same environment. >notice I'm using the term, "spots," and, "hotspots," >interchangeably here. >They mean the same thing. > >now there's two primary caveats to be aware of in doing this. >one simple one is, that you need to watch that your sometimes >quite lengthy >windowName/title, might extend over two lines, rather than one. so >make sure >you utilize control+Home and control+end, rather than just home >and end, >whilst navigating the windowName your trimming. > >The Second slightly more complex problem, is, of course, that you >may not >necessarily really know, what criteria is going to remain >constant, and what >not, in your windowNames, as you are messing around in your >application. > >Thus making it rather difficult to really know, what to remove, >and what to >leave alone. > > >So, my basic rule of thumb for newbys at this, is, to remove >anything from >these window names, that you aren't absolutely confident will be >there, >during all the times you want your click to actualy work. >And if your unsure, then delete whatever your unsure of. >e.g. I almost always recommend deleting the entire CurrentWindowName, >sometimes abbreviated in hsc to just, WindowName, because I've >found that >this can change so readily, that it often provides more headaches >than joys, >to leave anything in there as part of validation criteria. > >Secondly, if you are wanting hsc to look for a particular >word/phrase to >insure greater reliability for your click spot, if such is visible >to jaws >cursor, >then after obviously placing the jaws cursor at the spot you want >to define, >and over one of the words, activate the Graphics/Words hotspot >creation >wizard, using altControlShiftG, rather than the standard >AltControlShiftA, >wizard. This will then take into account the word or graphic name >which may >be under the jaws cursor, and ask you questions about how you'd >like hsc to >treat this. >usually searching from topDown, is best, but there may be >situations where >the spot is near the bottom of a window, that you'd prefer hsc to >search >bottom up, which you can also choose. >Tip: although the wizard may often ask you only about a single >word, you can >define this to be a longer phrase after the fact, by delving into the >definition for that spot, after completion of the wizard. >You'll find a whole bunch of after-the-fact twekable stuff in >there, which >I'm sure the rather comprehensive documentation will explain in >detail for >you if desired. > >oh there's just a million and 1 things I could rave on and on >about, in the >mastering of hsc. But I think that should do for starters. > >I will just conclude though, by saying that integration of hsc >into the >internet explorer environment, is not nearly as simple, as just >using it in >a local application. for which it was initially designed. >for obvious reasons. and this is treated a little in the >documentation. >There's a bunch of other things you need to be aware of, when >doing spots in >an app such as internet explorer, given that it can host just sooo >many >webpage environments, all potentially requiring different validaition >criteria, and maybe a separate hotspot set for each page, which >you'd then >ultimately like it to load automatically when it detected that >webpage. rah >rah rah. >So I'm not going into that one now. > >happy clicking. > >And perhaps ask your questions one by one, as you delve into hsc >more as you >try things. if you decide it's something you'd like to learn to >master. >just don't get too frustrated if things don't work out as you expect >straight away. like all software really, specially for us, it's a >slower >learning curve to getting the result you want, than you wish it >was. But, I >can tell you from personal experience, I think hsc is a very very >funky >tool, the stuff it can do, once you learn how to drive it well. >and realy >dig into it. >I believe it can permit blind user access to drive stuff that would be >almost impossible without it, in some applications. > > >Geoff Chapman. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain@xxxxxxxxx> >To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:31 AM >Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts > > > >I wonder if Hot Spot Clicker from http://hotspotclicker.org/ > will help > > with Andre's situation. I'm not sure, since I haven't used it > myself, > > but it looks like it's purpose is to make clicking on different > areas of > > the screen easier and without having to resort to scripting. > > > > On 16/11/11 13:20, Doug Lee wrote: > >> Your frustration is understandable, but the basic problem is that > >> application developers use many different methods of > displaying the > >> various parts of their applications, and each method can have > >> different accessibility characteristics. In short, each type of > >> control in an application can require its own accessibility > solution. > >> Freedom Scientific writes solutions to what it considers the most > >> common control types, but they simply can't predict or manage all > >> possible situations that happen out there. Since JAWS is > scriptable, > >> others can help out by coding for more situations; but still, more > >> accessibility issues exist than there are capable hands to address > >> them. > >> > >> So in summary, the fact that JAWS can't natively handle all the > >> applications you may use is as lamentable as it is inevitable. > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:09:41AM -0800, Andre Williams wrote: > >> Yes, I think this is the problem with all this scripting > business. Look > >> at > >> the amount of stuff you listed which one has to learn to get > started. If > >> this is your work then this is something that has to be > learned, but if > >> you > >> are coming at this from the perspective of the regular user > needing > >> simple > >> script features not already existing in jaws, then one must > now take > >> hours > >> and hours of personal time to learn this stuff as well as > paying for > >> tutorials and stuff. I just want to make jaws quickly click on > a tab on > >> my > >> screen, but it appears I have to learn tons of scripting > first. I am not > >> directing my comments at you Jacky, I'm only conveying my > frustration > >> with > >> what seems like a process that should not be this difficult. I > already > >> paid > >> lots for jaws so I don't plan on continuing to sink more money > into it. > >> > >> Just so I have a better perspective of the investment of time, > what will > >> go > >> into writing a script that will make jaws click on a specific > tab with a > >> press of a hotkey? I've already studied the layout of the > screen a bit > >> and > >> found that the tabs don't move, nor do the other items I want > to access > >> with > >> hotkeys. Can this type of script be written easily, or do I > have to learn > >> all the things Jacky suggested? > >> > >> A-W > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Jackie McBride" <abletec@xxxxxxxxx> > >> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:49 AM > >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Easier way of writing scripts > >> > >> > >> Andre, there are many ways, depending on the app. Moving to a > window > >> handle or control ID, doing a findstring(), Looking for a > particular > >> window class & control ID combination, going thru the window > or object > >> hierarchy--those are just a few for starters. I can't really > be more > >> definitive because, as I said, it really depends on the > application & > >> how it's structured. > >> > >> I'd recommend u study the basics of scripting manual included > in the > >> Jaws help topics, as well as some of the jaws scripts which are > >> located in the settings/enu directory of your jaws folder. My > >> scripting 101 materials are also available for purchase at: > >> www.screenreaderscripting.com > >> if u feel the other materials aren't sufficient to meet your > needs. > >> > >> On 11/16/11, Andre Williams <andre.williams.1965@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>> HI all, > >>> > >>> Does anyone know of a more elegant manner of writing a script > than > >>> specifying every command? I'm looking to refine the > accessibility of > >>> WordWeb > >>> a bit more and would like to not have to use script text such as > >>> page up > >>> page up > >>> home > >>> next word > >>> next word > >>> say word > >>> > >>> Is it possible to somehow take the jaws cursor to a specific > icon or > >>> point > >>> on the screen then hit a hotkey to tell Jaws that this is the > object I > >>> want > >>> to use in my script? > >>> > >>> For example, WordWeb has several tabs. One of these tabs is > used to read > >>> the > >>> Wikipedia article for the word one is wanting to define. I > would like to > >>> use > >>> the jaws scripting functions or keyboard commands to write a > script that > >>> makes jaws jump directly to this desired Wikipedia tab object > without > >>> all > >>> the PageUp (), Home (), NextWord () commands. > >>> > >>> If this is possible, please help a brotha out and let me know > how this > >>> can > >>> be done. > >>> > >>> A-W > >>> > >>> __________??? > >>> > >>> View the list's information and change your settings at > >>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Christopher (CJ) > > chaltain@xxxxxxxxx > > __________� > > > > View the list's information and change your settings at > > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > > > >__________� > >View the list's information and change your settings at >//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > >__________� > >View the list's information and change your settings at >//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING Clear True Sound www.ctsmastering.com and be sure to "like us" on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698 __________� View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts __________� View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts