[jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update

I have tested Jaws 7.10 with www.nationwide.co.uk banking sign in and that 
works OK, the new DOM support isn't making anything more difficult here.  The 
systems accross most of these online banking systems are quite similar in their 
operation.  We also have one user on Natwest who is not experiencing problems 
which is puzzling.
Regards.

Tristram Llewellyn
Sight and Sound Technology
Technical Support
www.sightandsound.co.uk

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David 
  To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:18 PM
  Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update


  Brian,
  Well done, it worked like a dream.

  I've read your notes but I think I'll have to read them again.  Thanks.

  Regards

  David


  -----Original Message-----
  From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
  Behalf Of Brian Hartgen
  Sent: 26 June 2006 18:40
  To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update


  David,

  Try this and let me know if it works.

  1. Start internet explorer.

  2. Bring up the conffiguration manager with insert and number 6 on the main
  qwerty keyboard.

  3. Press alt S for set options, H for HTML options.

  4. Shift tab back once to the property sheets and arrow right until you
  reach miscellaneous.

  5. Tab to the check box entitled "use legacy internet explorer support" and
  press space to check it.

  6. Press enter to close the dialog.

  7. Press control+s to save the file.

  8. Press alt+F4 to quit the configuration manager.

  NOTES

  This procedure should revert back to legacy support for Internet Explorer.
  There is no doubt that pages do behave very differently with the new IE
  support, and you should only use legacy if everything else fails.  My reason
  for saying that is clearly the new internet explorer support, delivered via
  the Document Object Model, is clearly the way Freedom Scientific intends to
  deliver web pages to us in the future.  To that end, the more of us who use
  the new support and report to FS when things go wrong, the better.  This new
  DOM support is hopefully a stepping stone to greater things in the years to
  come and we must support it whenever we can.

  In addition to the differences in the rendering of pages, people will notice
  two distinct differences with new DOM support.

  1. When you tab from one link or control to another, a yellow rectangle is
  also present.  One of the difficulties with jaws has historically been the
  lack of visual feedback concerning precisely what jaws is saying.  This
  rectangle is an aid to sighted individuals. The difficulty for us is that in
  my view it makes the tab key less responsive.  When you arrow through a
  document, visual focus is not tracked.

  2. Jaws is now better able to handle the difference between data and layout
  tables.  For example, if you visit a site such as
  www.tandt-consultancy.com
  Where we have used a layout table to display information, jaws 7.0 and
  before will announce the fact that you are entering and leaving a table.  As
  blind people, we possibly don't care about that, but we do care about data
  tables - those tables such as train time tables which need to be processed
  in a tabular way.  Jaws 7.10, using new DOM support, will not indicate the
  presence of these layout tables which from a new user standpoint is very
  good indeed.

  I hope I have explained this new concept of Internet support clearly and
  David, I hope my solution works for you.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
  Behalf Of David
  Sent: 26 June 2006 18:06
  To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update

  Hi Tristram,
  I have tested the Natwest webpage again with Jaws 7.0 and had no difficulty
  at all.  I then had three attempts with Jaws 7.10 and failed.

  Strangely, the second attempt allowed me to enter three digits in their
  separate fields, or I thought so, then realised i had been asked to enter
  the same number twice and that can't be right.  I then entered a character,
  only one, and was shot to the top of the page again.

  I have been in touch directly with S and S about this, can't remember the
  gentleman's name.  He suggested I try using the Insert F5 function which I
  did, not successfully.  In any case, it really should work as it does in
  7.0.

  I'll keep trying and report back.

  Regards


  -----Original Message-----
  From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tristram Llewellyn
  Sent: 26 June 2006 15:22
  To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update


  Unfortunately I'm not a customer of theres so I cannot test this myself.  I
  take it that if you go back to 7.0 things work out OK, and this is not a
  coincidence that perhaps the bank have change their site as well?
  Regards.

  Tristram Llewellyn
  Sight and Sound Technology
  Technical Support
  www.sightandsound.co.uk

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: David 
    To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 1:15 PM
    Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update


    The bank is the National Westminster and the website I use is
    www.nwolb.co.uk

    I tested it again five minutes ago and there is quite definitely a
  problem.
    I have used this site regularly for about a year and had no problems until
    Jaws 7.10.

    I also noticed today that having entered my personal number on the first
    page and pressed "next" it then asked me for my personal number again but,
    in fact, it should have been part of my pin number.  Anyway, I did a read
    line and it asked me to enter the first character of my pin number which I
    did.  It should then have taken me to the next field to enter another pin
    number but instead it asked me for the second character of my password.  I
    knew this was not right but entered it as requested and it immediately
  shot
    me to the top of the page.

    I don't like to mess around with this sort of site for long in case you
  end
    up having to re-register.  I hope you understand all that.

    Regards

    -----Original Message-----
    From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tristram Llewellyn
    Sent: 26 June 2006 10:47
    To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update


    Obviously not interested in your bank details but which bank is that you
  are
    having this problem with, perhaps someone else has the same bank and could
    compare notes with a view to finding what the problem is and then possible
    resolution.
    Regards.

    Tristram Llewellyn
    Sight and Sound Technology
    Technical Support
    www.sightandsound.co.uk

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: David 
      To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:23 AM
      Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update


      Hi,
      I have also had trouble with form fields with 7.10.  Not quite the same
  as
      you I think.  What I am finding on a particular banking website is
    entering
      password digits in their individual fields.  Normally you automatically
      start in field 1, then field 2 etc. but with 7.10 it seems to land on
  any
      random field and it doesn't reliably tell you wich.  When I use this
    website
      now I go back to 7.0.

      I have also noticed that some of the settings don't seem to have taken
      effect with the Merge Utilities function.  I might try running it again.

      I had trouble with Google some time ago when it kept on interrupting
      everytime I went to a new field in a form.  I found the problem in
      Add/Remove Software.  Forgotten what it was called but had "google" in
  it.
      Taking it out sorted it.

      Things are not looking good I think with Jaws 7.1 at the moment but it
  is
      still a Beta version so can't moan I suppose.

      Regards

      David
      -----Original Message-----
      From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
      Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
      Sent: 25 June 2006 23:01
      To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: [jaws-uk] Something very anoying in the new update


      Hi,

      I am finding this new update a bit difficult to get used to.  The main
      reason is that on a web form, if you are arrowing through the form, Jaws
      before 7.10 read out the relevant field, then the edit box etc for you
      to put the data into.  However, what I am now finding is that Jaws is
      reading some sort of attribute on the form entry fields, in addition to
      the data which is visible in the browser window, in effect reading the
      data out twice for each arrow up/down.  It is not therefore easy to
      distinguish when you come to the edit field in a form, you have to use
      different navigation commands to get you to the next edit field etc.

      One clear example on this is at http://www.google.com, where I usually
      quickly arrow down until I hear the words "edit", however, now I hear
      the words "google search" read out twice, once for the text shown above
      the form field, and once again on the form field itself.

      Is there any way to turn this feature off, so that I can hear the
      description of the field by pressing a key or something?

      Also, I realise that Brian has done a script for this, but I find
      Outlook a bit annoying when you continually hear the same message read
      out if you come to the bottom of the list.  If you are viewing a folder
      with the new messages coming at the bottom, you don't know when you
      reach the bottom of the list easily, because you continually hear the
      last message in the list, which makes it seem like that person wrote
      loads of messages.

      Thanks.
      Andrew.


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