[jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Thank god somebody recognises my true talent. 

Last time I nearly got proper recognision was when the bookie called me
colonel rather than captain when I lost a bet!

Tom

 

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Amie Slavin
Sent: 08 September 2011 10:25
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Very sensible.   Tom for president!
A

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of tom.reid21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 07 September 2011 14:40
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Hi folks,

As the one who started this off, I've found this an interesting discussion,
thanks to everybody for contributing.


I wouldn't expect people not to buy jaws, but, rather, I was trying to get a
sense of whether and to what extent my problem was affecting people
generally.

Rather than one person banging on to a company, I would like to be able to
get some figures to say x people are affected by this or that problem. That
might have some affect. I also see it as part of any of our screen reader
suppliers to look after us as users and have raised this with sight and
sound.

We may be underestimating our power as consumers. Recently, I got JP Morgan
to change a dealing practice after withdrawing amounts of money each time I
complained and promising to withdraw more.  I'm not david beckham by the
way.
 
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of the gamages
Sent: 07 September 2011 11:03
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Hello Barry,
You are right of course, but it's a very small specialist market that we are
talking about, have you tried the latest NVDA? these people are coming along
in leaps and bounds, already the program is quite adequate for all everyday
aspects of computing. I have Jaws 12 and have no intention of getting any
more updates at the moment, now, if everyone made up their mind to take that
view of the situation, Freedom Scientific may just take notice, but it's not
going to happen is it?  Jaws is aimed at people in work and it's needed in
that environment, after all, I think the initials stand for "Job access with
speech", So employers pay for the program in many cases, do they do that
because they are in ignorance of other screen readers? or is it that the
others don't give enough access for business activities?
As I understand it, Government departments along with many businesses use
Jaws for their visually impaired employees, so it's these big players who
should be making all the noise, however, it's good to have a moan and get
things off our chest, take care now and watch the blood pressure, [smile].

Jim.



-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Barry Toner
Sent: 07 September 2011 10:37
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Hi Jim,

The thing is though.  Providing the customers keep coming back, what
insentive does this offer the company to improve?  Business is all about
profits, regardless of any moral high grounds any of them try to take.

Regards,
Barry.

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of the gamages
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:35 AM
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Hello folks,
may I introduce a slightly different aspect of this debate? I have two
computers, one is using XP  and the other is Windows seven, I have a lot of
old programs on the XP computer and Jaws 8 works quite well with them, so I
use Jaws 8 with these, [the only thing which doesn't is Internet Explorer 8,
so I use Jaws 12 with that].
My Windows seven computer has office 2010 and some fairly newish stuff, so I
use Jaws 12 on that along with NVDA.
The point I am trying to make is that Jaws 12 may not be very friendly with
some older programs or operating systems, so I use Jaws 8 with these, if you
had an old 1960s Volkswagon beetle, you could hardly expect an alternator
for a modern Volkswagon Polo to work with it could you.
Perhaps that's not a very good analogy, but I'm sure you get the idea.
I'm not making excuses for Freedom Scientific, because some things still
need sorting out in Jaws 12 for newer programs, these are faults and they
should be addressed without having to shell out for expensive updates.
However, sometimes it's better to use an older version of Jaws if it works
better with older stuff. I know that was not the case with the original
point in this debate, that should be sorted out now and not be left until a
huge charge can be made for an update, if we buy something in a shop and
it's faulty, we take it back and get the problem resolved, in the U K this
is covered by the Sale of goods act, I don't know what that equates to in
the States, if it's not fit for purpose, then we have some redress.
It is still the case that Jaws is still the most usable program, until that
changes, we are stuck with it, but I think any business should think
carefully before ignoring the complaints of their customers.

Jim.


-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Darren H
Sent: 07 September 2011 09:56
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Sorry, that's a bit of a cop out.

Just because we're blind, shouldn't we expect the kind of service from our
access providers that we do eveyrone else?

 If Jaws was a mainstream program with a good deal of other providers
available, it would never stand up to scrutiny.

It only survives because it's the best of a fairly poor bunch.

Cheers
Darren


-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Alex Stone - CW
Sent: 07 September 2011 09:55
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Darren, it is unfortunate, however, even if there was any useful competition
we'd only end up with a cartel rather than the current monopoly.
Cheers
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Darren H
Sent: 06 September 2011 17:25
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Hi.

It is just unfortunate that jaws hasn't got any competition to speak of.

For all it's faults, it still seems to do a better job than any other screen
reader I've tried.

Which obviously means, they can do what they jolly well please and we'll
just have to go along with it.

Yes, of course businesses are there to make a profit.

But the idea of business is to make a profit with a product that works
correctly and as intended, not half do a job but know that people will
purchase anyway because they have to.

I'm in the fortunate position of being able to comfortably afford the
upgrades, but for those that aren't, it's a real pain in the gonads.

Cheers
Darren


-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Amie Slavin
Sent: 06 September 2011 17:15
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

But I don't think I do need to put myself in their position.  I'm a
customer, a consumer.  It is for them to put themselves, as a profit-making
business, in my position.  Even as a self-employed sole trader I wouldn't
dream of using my need for income as an excuse for monopolising a captive
market with a substandard product.  Neither would any of the business people
of my acquaintance.  It is for businesses to serve customers; not the other
way around.
Bang :o) (for Tom)
A

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Graham Page
Sent: 06 September 2011 16:12
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Amie yes I'm afraid you are rather going off on one.  You need to put
yourself in the position of the manufacturer of the screenreader who relies
on the screenreader sales for income.

Yes there are problems with the over all model.  Yes I have problems with
some aspects of the way freedom scientific in particular chooses to do
business i.e. aggressive use of law suits.
It is interesting to note that while apple  has developed its own
screenreader, there is also some suggestion at least that the next version
of windows 8 will have a more useful screenreader built in.

I do hope that there will come a time when expensive screenreaders that cost
more than the hardware they run on will not be required as they will be part
of the operating system but if programmers and technical support people have
to live off the revenue of sales from a screenreader it is likely to be
expensive.

Regards

Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Amie Slavin
Sent: 06 September 2011 14:24
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

For sure, just as I'm looking at JAWS 12.  What a confounded rip-off the
whole racket is.
Well done us for not swearing (lol) when, yet again, confronted with this
very old chestnut, centring on blind people being an easy target for those
intent on making money out of tech sighted people would laugh out of the
water.
Anyway, here I go, off on one: chunter chunter chunter.
Thanks Tom, for pointing this out.  Important info.
A

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of tom.reid21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 06 September 2011 14:17
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] An old chestnut

Hi folks,

I've gone on for some time about access 2003--7 not being read properly
under xp. the tab is silent.

Through sightandsound, we have a reply from F s saying that it is a known
issue under xp and vista.

here's the punch line, though, it is scheduled to be fixed under jaws 13.

I've got an sma for this so may be okay if it is fixed, but, what about
those who haven't.

Surely, this is not good enough.

anybody affected should raise this.

tom



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