[jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
- From: "John SAVAGE" <johnnyboy184@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:59:19 +0100
Alex, keep reading to the bottom of this message.
John.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Stone" <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:53 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
> Tom, Sorry to be a pain, but I've forgotten what your original question
> was,
> could you remind me please?
> Cheers
> Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of tom.reid21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 07 September 2011 14:40
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hi folks,
>
> As the one who started this off, I've found this an interesting
> discussion,
> thanks to everybody for contributing.
>
>
> I wouldn't expect people not to buy jaws, but, rather, I was trying to get
> a
> sense of whether and to what extent my problem was affecting people
> generally.
>
> Rather than one person banging on to a company, I would like to be able to
> get some figures to say x people are affected by this or that problem.
> That
> might have some affect. I also see it as part of any of our screen reader
> suppliers to look after us as users and have raised this with sight and
> sound.
>
> We may be underestimating our power as consumers. Recently, I got JP
> Morgan
> to change a dealing practice after withdrawing amounts of money each time
> I
> complained and promising to withdraw more. I'm not david beckham by the
> way.
>
> Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of the gamages
> Sent: 07 September 2011 11:03
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hello Barry,
> You are right of course, but it's a very small specialist market that we
> are
> talking about, have you tried the latest NVDA? these people are coming
> along
> in leaps and bounds, already the program is quite adequate for all
> everyday
> aspects of computing. I have Jaws 12 and have no intention of getting any
> more updates at the moment, now, if everyone made up their mind to take
> that
> view of the situation, Freedom Scientific may just take notice, but it's
> not
> going to happen is it? Jaws is aimed at people in work and it's needed in
> that environment, after all, I think the initials stand for "Job access
> with
> speech", So employers pay for the program in many cases, do they do that
> because they are in ignorance of other screen readers? or is it that the
> others don't give enough access for business activities?
> As I understand it, Government departments along with many businesses use
> Jaws for their visually impaired employees, so it's these big players who
> should be making all the noise, however, it's good to have a moan and get
> things off our chest, take care now and watch the blood pressure, [smile].
>
> Jim.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Barry Toner
> Sent: 07 September 2011 10:37
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> The thing is though. Providing the customers keep coming back, what
> insentive does this offer the company to improve? Business is all about
> profits, regardless of any moral high grounds any of them try to take.
>
> Regards,
> Barry.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of the gamages
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:35 AM
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hello folks,
> may I introduce a slightly different aspect of this debate? I have two
> computers, one is using XP and the other is Windows seven, I have a lot
> of
> old programs on the XP computer and Jaws 8 works quite well with them, so
> I
> use Jaws 8 with these, [the only thing which doesn't is Internet Explorer
> 8,
> so I use Jaws 12 with that].
> My Windows seven computer has office 2010 and some fairly newish stuff, so
> I
> use Jaws 12 on that along with NVDA.
> The point I am trying to make is that Jaws 12 may not be very friendly
> with
> some older programs or operating systems, so I use Jaws 8 with these, if
> you
> had an old 1960s Volkswagon beetle, you could hardly expect an alternator
> for a modern Volkswagon Polo to work with it could you.
> Perhaps that's not a very good analogy, but I'm sure you get the idea.
> I'm not making excuses for Freedom Scientific, because some things still
> need sorting out in Jaws 12 for newer programs, these are faults and they
> should be addressed without having to shell out for expensive updates.
> However, sometimes it's better to use an older version of Jaws if it works
> better with older stuff. I know that was not the case with the original
> point in this debate, that should be sorted out now and not be left until
> a
> huge charge can be made for an update, if we buy something in a shop and
> it's faulty, we take it back and get the problem resolved, in the U K this
> is covered by the Sale of goods act, I don't know what that equates to in
> the States, if it's not fit for purpose, then we have some redress.
> It is still the case that Jaws is still the most usable program, until
> that
> changes, we are stuck with it, but I think any business should think
> carefully before ignoring the complaints of their customers.
>
> Jim.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Darren H
> Sent: 07 September 2011 09:56
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Sorry, that's a bit of a cop out.
>
> Just because we're blind, shouldn't we expect the kind of service from our
> access providers that we do eveyrone else?
>
> If Jaws was a mainstream program with a good deal of other providers
> available, it would never stand up to scrutiny.
>
> It only survives because it's the best of a fairly poor bunch.
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Alex Stone - CW
> Sent: 07 September 2011 09:55
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Darren, it is unfortunate, however, even if there was any useful
> competition
> we'd only end up with a cartel rather than the current monopoly.
> Cheers
> Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Darren H
> Sent: 06 September 2011 17:25
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hi.
>
> It is just unfortunate that jaws hasn't got any competition to speak of.
>
> For all it's faults, it still seems to do a better job than any other
> screen
> reader I've tried.
>
> Which obviously means, they can do what they jolly well please and we'll
> just have to go along with it.
>
> Yes, of course businesses are there to make a profit.
>
> But the idea of business is to make a profit with a product that works
> correctly and as intended, not half do a job but know that people will
> purchase anyway because they have to.
>
> I'm in the fortunate position of being able to comfortably afford the
> upgrades, but for those that aren't, it's a real pain in the gonads.
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Amie Slavin
> Sent: 06 September 2011 17:15
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> But I don't think I do need to put myself in their position. I'm a
> customer, a consumer. It is for them to put themselves, as a
> profit-making
> business, in my position. Even as a self-employed sole trader I wouldn't
> dream of using my need for income as an excuse for monopolising a captive
> market with a substandard product. Neither would any of the business
> people
> of my acquaintance. It is for businesses to serve customers; not the
> other
> way around.
> Bang :o) (for Tom)
> A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Graham Page
> Sent: 06 September 2011 16:12
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Amie yes I'm afraid you are rather going off on one. You need to put
> yourself in the position of the manufacturer of the screenreader who
> relies
> on the screenreader sales for income.
>
> Yes there are problems with the over all model. Yes I have problems with
> some aspects of the way freedom scientific in particular chooses to do
> business i.e. aggressive use of law suits.
> It is interesting to note that while apple has developed its own
> screenreader, there is also some suggestion at least that the next version
> of windows 8 will have a more useful screenreader built in.
>
> I do hope that there will come a time when expensive screenreaders that
> cost
> more than the hardware they run on will not be required as they will be
> part
> of the operating system but if programmers and technical support people
> have
> to live off the revenue of sales from a screenreader it is likely to be
> expensive.
>
> Regards
>
> Graham
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Amie Slavin
> Sent: 06 September 2011 14:24
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> For sure, just as I'm looking at JAWS 12. What a confounded rip-off the
> whole racket is.
> Well done us for not swearing (lol) when, yet again, confronted with this
> very old chestnut, centring on blind people being an easy target for those
> intent on making money out of tech sighted people would laugh out of the
> water.
> Anyway, here I go, off on one: chunter chunter chunter.
> Thanks Tom, for pointing this out. Important info.
> A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of tom.reid21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 06 September 2011 14:17
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] An old chestnut
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've gone on for some time about access 2003--7 not being read properly
> under xp. the tab is silent.
>
> Through sightandsound, we have a reply from F s saying that it is a known
> issue under xp and vista.
>
> here's the punch line, though, it is scheduled to be fixed under jaws 13.
>
> I've got an sma for this so may be okay if it is fixed, but, what about
> those who haven't.
>
> Surely, this is not good enough.
>
> anybody affected should raise this.
>
> tom
>
>
>
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