Not yet, and let me check it... Thanks, Roy Tsao ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas W Shinder To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 10:17 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Didn't ANYONE read the link I sent??? Thomas W Shinder, M.D. Site: www.isaserver.org Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- ISA Firewalls ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 2:20 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry I want to make sure about mixed configuration amount RR feature, ISA EE array and also NLB when enable client-side carp through WPAD. Case 1): ISA EE Array without NLB per Jim's saying, RR shall be disabled since it conflicts with client-side carp. Case 2): ISA EE Array with NLB a) RR eabled - DNS holds A record to both of array's VIP and DIP This is not a good configuration I suppose oer case 1) b) RR disabled - DNS holds A record to both of array's VIP and DIP I am not sure how client-side carp handle it. - DNS holds A record to array's VIP only I am not sure either! With regards, Roy Tsao ----- Original Message ----- From: Periyasamy, Raj To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:45 AM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Are we talking abour RR or NLB? Because if you use NLB with ISA EE, you dont need RR. HTH. Regards, Raj Periyasamy MCSE(Messaging), CCNA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:00 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Hi Periyasamy, How are you sure array's FQDN is never resolved to VIP by RRed DNS? Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: Periyasamy, Raj To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry You still need to keep the physical names of both array members in the DNS. WPAD will issue a script to the client, that will point to both the ISA servers by the physical name, not virtual name of NLB. When you do NETSTAT you will see that your client is actually talking to the physical names of the ISA and not the virtual name. HTH. Regards, Raj Periyasamy MCSE(Messaging), CCNA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:27 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Jim, I am thinking about one more RR related scenario under ISA EE (not SE), say after enable NLB at internal interface of ISA EE array, what shall be the correct setting at DNS when a record is set array's FQDN -> array's VIP 1) keep a record of each array's memember at DNS 2) or those must be deleted How is client-side CARP in 1) and 2)? ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Tsao To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:08 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Jim, You are pointing out sort of worse issue in so called double loading shareing using RR and client-side CARP under ISA EE array, that's true! However in the scenario I showed, RR is used for load-sharing among ISA SE... Dan, I remembered you ever mentioned Raiwall was used in your network for NLB under ISA SE, that's the another reason I propose RR for ISA SE. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Harrison To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:39 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry If these servers operate in an array, using RR can actually decrease your load-sharing across the array. Since we're talking about WPAD here, you *must* bear in mind that the script obtained from the ISA contains a list of servers by name or IP, depending on your configuration. If you try to round-robin or (worse yet), NLB these IPs, client-side CARP will fight with the LB mechanism. BTW, there's nothing wrong with multiple internal subnets. In fact, it can help you control segmentation better, because no DG == no non-local subnet & blackhole routers == no non-local subnet. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Ball, Dan Sent: Fri 9/1/2006 4:20 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Okay, my bad, someday I'll get those terms right. What you say makes sense, it's definitely an option. I'm just hoping our WAN fiber goes into place soon, then I won't have to worry about multiple internal sub-nets anymore. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:25 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Hi Dan, I said "Except SNAT". Moreover, unless special client required as SNAT like published server, FWC plus WPC shall be deployed to most of clients under ISA Firewall environment, we can maximize the benefit provided by ISA, right? So even if there is gateway at client side, most of them shall go through FWC or WPC connection. Again, I try to say the positive point of DNS round robin feature, that's it. HTH, Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas W Shinder To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:37 AM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry I've done it in many deployments, and IIRC, that's how they do it at MS. Thomas W Shinder, M.D. Site: www.isaserver.org Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- ISA Firewalls ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ball, Dan Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:26 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry We had briefly touched upon this topic about a year or so ago, but I wasn't aware that it was an actual common practice. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:18 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Hi Dan, In most secure environments you don't give the clients a default gateway and use the Firewall and Web proxy client configurations to enfroce security. So, this might work fine using RR DNS. Thomas W Shinder, M.D. Site: www.isaserver.org Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- ISA Firewalls -------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ball, Dan Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:02 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry I'd have to say no. - External sites are resolved by DNS server. - Resolved sites are referenced then by IP address. - Since an external site is resolved to an IP that is not a "local" address, it resorts to using the default gateway to connect. - Default gateways are entered by IP, not hostname, nullifying the round-robin DNS abilities. The exception to this might be if you use the FWC, then you might be able to redirect all connections via DNS entries. You might be able to share the proxy address too, but that default gateway is a kicker. -------------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:00 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Hm... You have two ISA SE, let say its internal interface IP address is 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.2/24. You creat two a record in DNS, isa.dan.local -> 192.168.0.1 and isa.dan.local -> 192.168.0.2 Then by DNS round robin, your internal client (except SNAT) would enjoy the connection to either of the ISA SE server for ounbound connection, make sense? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ball, Dan To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry I think that would only work on inbound connections. You can't define round-robin DNS entries for someone else's server! ------------------------------------------------------------ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:42 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Surely about outbound connection! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ball, Dan To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry You referring to incoming or outgoing connections? ---------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:28 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Dan, Suppose you have two external line provided by different ISP, normally two ISA EE is needed but by using DNS round robin, you can deploy two ISA SE for load balancing..., that's my point. HTH, Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: Ball, Dan To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry No, you would still have that "one default gateway" problem. Besides, that feature is only for DNS entries that "you" control, not external. -------------------------------------------------------- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roy Tsao Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:36 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Dan, Your problem is due to DNS round robin feature, and it shall be solved by Stefaan's great guidance. On the other hand, don't you think we can utilize such round rodin as a good feature to implement NLB to balance connection to multi external interface by using ISA STD version only? HTH, Roy Tsao ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefaan Pouseele To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry you might check out http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=842197. HTH, Stefaan ------------------------------------------------------ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ball, Dan Sent: donderdag 31 augustus 2006 3:28 To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Good article, it sounds very similar to my scenario. I already had the "enable netmask ordering" option enabled, so that is not the problem. Do you think it might be because each of the 10.6.x.x subnets have a mask of 255.255.255.0? ------------------------------------------------------ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stefaan Pouseele Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:57 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: wpad.dat DNS entry Hi Dan, check out my blog http://blogs.isaserver.org/pouseele/2006/06/30/multi-networking-wpad-support-in-isa-2004/. HTH, Stefaan ------------------------------------------------------ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ball, Dan Sent: woensdag 30 augustus 2006 21:47 To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] wpad.dat DNS entry I'm having a serious problem here with the wpad name resolution. I moved it from being sent out via DHCP to DNS per Jim's recommendation, which seems to have speeded up some things, but is now unreliable and causing problems. The problem appears to be the multiple internal subnets. Here is a diagram of how it is laid out: Internet | ISA Server --- Internal Network 1 (10.20.1.1) | Internal Network 2 (10.6.254.90)---- 10.6.8.x Subnet |-- 10.6.9.x Subnet |-- 10.6.10.x Subnet |-- 10.6.12.x Subnet |-- 10.6.14.x Subnet |-- 10.6.15.x Subnet I entered two Host (A) records for wpad, one for 10.20.1.1, and another for 10.6.254.90. Frequently I run across computers on the 10.6.x.x subnet where the FWC cannot automatically detect the ISA server, so I ping wpad and it resolves to the 10.20.1.1 address instead of the 10.6.254.90 address that it is supposed to get. I try repairs and such, it keeps resolving to the wrong one. When I reboot the computer, it resolves to the correct IP and works properly. I reboot the computer several times, and it gets the correct address. But, I'll hear of another computer having problems, and I'll check and it is the same problem. This is not going to be pretty over the next few days as teacher come back to work after summer vacation. What is the best way to resolve this? Change it back to DHCP, customize host files, etc? All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.