I'm saying that if I am paying for the maintenance, which includes new versions of the software, and I keep that maintenance paid up, why does Microsoft care which versions I do or don't implement? It's not like you are paying Proxy Server 1.0 prices for the maintenance, because the maintenance increases in price every year, relative to the price of the newest product (since the price of Microsoft software only goes one way, that is always an increase). I have never seen SA renewals that are tied to a specific version; it is always listed as the main product name. Moreover, for many titles you generally pay more for the software using SA than you do if you just buy each version from scratch, so it sure is confusing to me why Microsoft would go even further towards discouraging folks from getting SA. In your example, let's say I did purchase Proxy Server 1.0 with SA. I continued to pay SA, but when 2.0 came out, I did not upgrade. When SA came up for renewal this time, the price increased relative to the cost of the new version and I continued to pay SA on that title. Continue this cycle through the versions and ISA, in each case I pay for the SA renewal, the description of which continually updates based on the then-current product name, I just don't choose to actually install every upgrade, for which I have clearly paid. You are saying that I forfeited the right to get the upgrade at the point in time when I declined to install Proxy Server 2.0. Here's my question: Why did Microsoft take my money? And can I get a refund? I understand that there are some modest ancillary benefits, but we never use them (I think I have contacted Microsoft product support once in 12 years, for example), and they are certainly not worth the amount of money you spend for SA. For clarification, the "I" above is a generalization. We have pretty much paid for every version of Proxy Server/ISA Server over the years and only bought SA for some specific things (upon which we did exercise our upgrade rights). ________________________________ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:33 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Release By your logic, SA for Proxy Server 1.0 gets you free upgrade to TMG as well (ignore the long-out-of-support aspect for a moment). The whole point of SA is version-to-version upgrade protection; not "anything I want" upgrade protection. From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mayo, Bill Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:14 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Release Do I understand you to say that if someone purchased ISA 2004 with SA and kept renewing the SA every year, but chose not to actually upgrade to 2006, then they forfeit upgrade rights in perpetuity from that point on? That seems a little persnickety, does it not? We only do a little bit of SA around here, so there may be something I am missing, but it has always been the case here that when a new revision came out, your SA renewals were always relevant to the current version. In other words, it wasn't like there was even an option to choose to renew SA under the old version number. Our upgrades have always been tied to a state contract, which is multi-year, and we always have to decide at the end of the contract period whether we are going to renew the specific SA's at that time, but it always in the form of the current version. I don't know if the contracted time period makes our case unique or not. I am not trying to be argumentative (at least at this point), just seeking to understand. The whole point of SA is upgrade protection, so if you keep it paid up, I don't understand why Microsoft cares if you actually perform the upgrade(s) to which you are entitled or not. ________________________________ From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:58 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Release No; SA gets you the "next revision"; not "the next convenient revision". If you don't exercise your 2004 SA to upgrade to ISA 2006, you don't' get to upgrade to TMG. From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:54 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Release It's really a matter of whether you have excerised your SA rights yet or not. If not, why haven't you? thanks, Amy Babinchak Harbor Computer Services | 248-850-8616 | Mobile 248-890-1794 Phone Number: 248-850-8616 Web http://www.harborcomputerservices.net <http://www.harborcomputerservices.net/> Client Blog http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com <http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com/> Tech Blog http://securesmb.harborcomputerservices.net <http://securesmb.harborcomputerservices.net/> Buy My House: http:// www.HomesByOwner.com/15490 <http://www.shannonrealty.com/vassar_mls_tour.html> Are you an IT Pro? http://www.thirdtier.net <http://www.thirdtier.net/> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joe Pochedley Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:51 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Release Jim, I don't understand this: ISA 2006 SA will get them an upgrade to TMG. ISA 2004 SA will not. ISA SA is ISA SA... I've never seen a distinction for SA for ISA 2004 vs SA for ISA 2006... If the SA is active / up-to-date, then you've got SA for the ISA product line. As TMG is the next "version" of ISA, then any active ISA SA should get you the upgrade... Or am I missing something? Joe P From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:40 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Release TMG will release by the end of this year, which will also be about 90 days before it goes "GA" (Generally Available). ISA 2006 SA will get them an upgrade to TMG. ISA 2004 SA will not. TMG MBE does not have SA, so who cares? Seriously - do you really think anyone with an NDA is going to break it in a public forum by giving vague suggestions as to a release date other than what's been publicly stated? Your nail-biting customers are in no worse position than any other ISA customer. Those who have "moved on cuz we can't wait" will regret that decision, but hey - it's their decision to make... Patience, (gr)asshopper - all good things in their own time. J From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andy Haigh Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:59 PM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] TMG Release Hi All, Now I know that those in the know are restricted by NDR's and other constraints but if I were to guess at there being a RC release Oct/Nov with the product being released to the public by Feb 2010, would it be a close guess? Been getting a lot of pressure from clients about when is TMG going to be available. They are some who have moved to other products already but I still have some hanging on as they have SA on the product. Thanks Andy ExchangeDefender Message Security: Check Authenticity <http://www.exchangedefender.com/verify.asp?id=n8BIs7rL018037&from=amy@h arborcomputerservices.net>