RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes needed?

Sick

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:00 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes needed?


http://www.ISAserver.org

Yeh - this is what happens when you hijack another thread.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ [mailto:mjtech@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 6:44 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes needed?

http://www.ISAserver.org

I know you guys tried to make me understand this, but so fat it's
getting
more mestrious to me, and I've lost my hope in understanding it.
please save your breath, and I really appreciate the efforts.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Tsao [mailto:roy_tsao@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:31 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes needed?


http://www.ISAserver.org

Hi Stefaan,

To avoid confusion, let us disucss on your initial diagram:

> >
> >                       192.168.1.0/24
> >                            vvv
> >   LAN-A -------- [ISA-A] ---+
> > 192.168.22.0/24         .10 !
> >                             +--- [RTR] --- Internet
> >                             !  .1
> >                         .30 !
> >                          [RTR-B]
> >                             ! .1
> >                         .10 !
> >   LAN-B -------- [ISA-B] ---+
> > 192.168.44.0/24            ^^^
> >                       192.168.11.0/24
> >
> >
> > On ISA-A:
> > ---------
> >
> > Remote Site Network contains:
> > - 192.168.11.10/32
> > - 192.168.44.0/24
> >
> > Default gateway: 192.168.1.1
> >
> > Static routes configured:
> > - 192.168.11.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.30
> > - 192.168.44.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.30 <<<< WHY is this one needed
???

The question is why that addtional static route 192.168.44.0/24 Gateway
192.168.1.30 is needed?

Then I provide answer as per

> > After various lab test by me and also other ISA fans, we suspect in
our
> > environment, you can add up a static route from upstream router to
ISA-B's
> > external NIC. This is becuase
> > - no route tale change at ISA after enable S2S IPsec Tunnel VPN
> > - ISA decides route before processing ESP
> > - ESP is sent based on fixed route when packet exit ISA.
> > - when upstream router receive ESP heading for ISA-B's exernal NIC,
it
has
> > no route information at all!
> >
> > To addup a static route at ISA-A to ISA-B's internal network ID is
one
of
> > soultion based on above reason. However, is it more proper to set up
> > /adjust
> > route setting at upstream router? or any reason like security
concern is
> > there making impossible?

If the route decision should be made on the outer IP header of the
tunnel
(as I understand before seeing your post), it is no need to add up that
static route on route table entry at ISA-A, isn't it? However, you need
a
help of one more static route to instruct ISA-A go for right route path
before sending ESP.

Thanks,

Roy Tsao


> Hi Roy,
>
> I'm not sure I understand your question!?!?
>
> If I'm the administrator of ISA-A, I define the remote network
> 192.168.44.0/24 as reachable through the tunnel endpoint 192.168.1.30.
Now,
> 192.168.1.0/24 is a directly connected network. Why do I need to
create a
> static route for 192.168.44.0/24 with Gateway 192.168.1.30 before it
works?
>
> Thanks,
> Stefaan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy Tsao [mailto:roy_tsao@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: zondag 8 januari 2006 14:12
> To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> Subject: [isalist] RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes
needed?
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> Hi Stefaan,
>
> Let us cencer on your initial diagrams you illustruated.
> In case the S2S VPN is within the protected network of ISA, it would
be
> another story.
>
> If your saying "The route decision should be made on the outer IP
header"
> is correct, why you need to addup a static route from ISA-A to
internal
> network ID of ISA-B, then why you ask for this question??
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roy Tsao
>
> > Hi Roy,
> >
> > You wrote "ISA decides route before processing ESP". That would be a
> > very stupid way of determining the route! The route decision should
be
> > made on the outer IP header (the tunnel) and not on the inner IP
> > header (the encapsulated traffic). In my case the remote tunnel
> > endpoint is on a direct connected network. So, the router RTR
shouldn't
be
> envolved at all.
> >
> > As an example, two more diagrams were a S2S VPN connection is needed
> > through a partner connection:
> >
> >                  +--- [RT1] --- Internet
> > LAN --- [ISA] ---+
> >                  +--- [RT2] --- Partner Network
> >
> >
> > LAN --- [ISA] --- [RT1] --- Internet
> >           !
> >           +------ [RT2] --- Partner Network
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stefaan
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roy Tsao [mailto:roy_tsao@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: zondag 8 januari 2006 9:24
> > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > Subject: [isalist] RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes
needed?
> >
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> >
> >
> > Hi Stefaan,
> >
> > After various lab test by me and also other ISA fans, we suspect in
our
> > environment, you can add up a static route from upstream router to
ISA-B's
> > external NIC. This is becuase
> > - no route tale change at ISA after enable S2S IPsec Tunnel VPN
> > - ISA decides route before processing ESP
> > - ESP is sent based on fixed route when packet exit ISA.
> > - when upstream router receive ESP heading for ISA-B's exernal NIC,
it
has
> > no route information at all!
> >
> > To addup a static route at ISA-A to ISA-B's internal network ID is
one
of
> > soultion based on above reason. However, is it more proper to set up
> adjust
> > route setting at upstream route? or any reason like security concern
is
> > there making impossible?
> >
> > As for your 2nd test scenario, may I understand the failure is due
to
> > diabled packet relay at router side?
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Jim,
> > >
> > > OK, I took up the challenge and replaced ISA-B with a Windows 2003
> > > RRAS server :-)
> > >
> > > With the help of
> > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;816514 I
> > > configured an IPSec tunnel to the ISA-A. Guess what... you are
right!
> > > I found exact the same behavior.
> > >
> > > I even simplified further the test environment as follows:
> > >
> > >                       192.168.1.0/24
> > >                            vvv
> > >   LAN-A -------- [ISA-A] ---+
> > > 192.168.22.0/24         .10 !
> > >                             +--- [RTR] --- Internet
> > >                             !  .1
> > >                         .30 !
> > >   LAN-B -------- [ISA-B] ---+
> > > 192.168.44.0/24
> > >
> > >
> > > On ISA-A:
> > > ---------
> > >
> > > Remote Site Network contains:
> > > - 192.168.1.30/32
> > > - 192.168.44.0/24
> > >
> > > If Default gateway = 192.168.1.1 then the static route
> > > '192.168.44.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.30' is needed.
> > > If Default gateway = 192.168.1.30 then no static routes are
needed.
> > >
> > >
> > > On ISA-B:
> > > ---------
> > >
> > > Remote Site Network contains:
> > > - 192.168.1.10/32
> > > - 192.168.22.0/24
> > >
> > > If Default gateway = 192.168.1.1 then the static route
> > > '192.168.22.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.10' is needed.
> > > If Default gateway = 192.168.1.10 then no static routes are
needed.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Stefaan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: dinsdag 27 december 2005 21:23
> > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > > Subject: [isalist] RE: S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes
needed?
> > >
> > > http://www.ISAserver.org
> > >
> > > That is odd, but I'll bet you find that this behavior is the same
> > > without ISA.
> > > RRAS and the TCP/IP stack, not ISA, handle the actual packet
routing.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > Jim Harrison
> > > MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
> > > http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
> > > http://isatools.org
> > > Read the help / books / articles!
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stefaan Pouseele [mailto:stefaan.pouseele@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:58 AM
> > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > > Subject: [isalist] S2S VPN: why are static routes sometimes
needed?
> > >
> > > http://www.ISAserver.org
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > it seems that if a S2S VPN connection of type IPSec Tunnel is used
and
> > > if the remote tunnel endpoint can't be reached through the default
> > > gateway, then you need to create extra static routes for the
remote
> > > network ID's reachable through that remote tunnel endpoint. I
don't
> > > understand why this is needed? Take note that there were no
problems
> > > in setting up the IPSec MM and QM SA's!
> > >
> > > To explain it better, here is a little diagram of the lab setup:
> > >
> > >                       192.168.1.0/24
> > >                            vvv
> > >   LAN-A -------- [ISA-A] ---+
> > > 192.168.22.0/24         .10 !
> > >                             +--- [RTR] --- Internet
> > >                             !  .1
> > >                         .30 !
> > >                          [RTR-B]
> > >                             ! .1
> > >                         .10 !
> > >   LAN-B -------- [ISA-B] ---+
> > > 192.168.44.0/24            ^^^
> > >                       192.168.11.0/24
> > >
> > >
> > > On ISA-A:
> > > ---------
> > >
> > > Remote Site Network contains:
> > > - 192.168.11.10/32
> > > - 192.168.44.0/24
> > >
> > > Default gateway: 192.168.1.1
> > >
> > > Static routes configured:
> > > - 192.168.11.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.30
> > > - 192.168.44.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.30 <<<< WHY is this one needed
???
> > >
> > >
> > > On ISA-B:
> > > ---------
> > >
> > > Remote Site Network contains:
> > > - 192.168.1.10/32
> > > - 192.168.22.0/24
> > >
> > > Default Gateway: 192.168.11.1
> > >
> > > No static routes configured.
> > >
> > >
> > > Test:
> > > -----
> > >
> > > From a host on LAN-B ping a host on LAN-A. Without the static
route
> > > '192.168.44.0/24 Gateway 192.168.1.30' on ISA-A, I can see the
ping
> > > request and reply on LAN-A but the reply never makes it back to
LAN-B.
> > > The ping reply just disappeared into thin air! Creating the static
> > > route and bingo, it works. What's the logic behind this behavior?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Stefaan

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