[isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders

  • From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:03:19 -0700

http://www.ISAserver.org
-------------------------------------------------------
  
R2-- read only DC for remote branches...

t


On 10/24/06 6:25 PM, "Greg Mulholland" <gmulholland@xxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to
all:

> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
>   
> what do you mean by a read only dc? i thought we had to wait for longhorn to
> do that?
> 
> Greg
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:26 AM
> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> 
> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
> You might consider deploying a "read-only" DC in the branch.
> This reduces the WAN traffic for logon and AD replication.
> Logon traffic across the WAN is a nasty thing to handle and troubleshoot.
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Harrison
> MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
> http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
> http://isatools.org
> Read the help / books / articles!
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 07:33
> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
> The plan it to move the DC's out of the brand offices altogether.
> Conditional forwarding. That might be what I'm looking for.
> Thanks,
> Amy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:23 AM
> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Amy,
> If the internal users need to access main office resources using DNS, then I
> think it would be a good idea to move the Internet host name resolution away
> from the branch office DCs. You can do this by putting a caching only DNS
> server on the ISA Firewall themselves (or on another
> machine) and then creating a stub zone or configure conditional forwarding
> on those DNS servers so that they send requests for the Internal domain(s)
> to the DCs.
> HTH,
> Tom
> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> Site: www.isaserver.org
> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:12 AM
>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>> 
>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> At the branch offices their DNS use is more Internet than contacting
>> internal hosts. There are a lot of DC's in the network currently so
>> there's a lot of chatter going on. This would be a temporary move
>> until I can get rid of some of the DC's. They really aren't necessary.
>> 
>> 
>> Amy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:52 AM
>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>> 
>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> I don't have any cache-only DNS servers in my infrastructure, but my
>> ISP does (in addition to the "standard" redundant servers) so I use
>> those for my DMZ DNS server's lookups...
>> 
>> How will making the branch servers cache only cut down on DNS traffic?
>> What's the difference between the cache only server fetching the
>> record compared to the AD update? Or are there that many hosts that
>> no one is ever trying to reach that it will make a difference?
>> 
>> t
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/23/06 6:26 PM, "Amy Babinchak" <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> spoketh to all:
>> 
>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Thor,
>>> 
>>> Do you put any cache only servers in the mix? I've got a
>> network where
>>> there are DC's running DNS at branch offices and I'm thinking of
>> making
>>> those only cache servers to reduce some network traffic.
>>> 
>>> Amy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:50 PM
>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>> 
>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> I've found that many people seem to dance over the security
>>> ramifications of DNS/forwarders when designing an infrastructure. I
>>> had
>> some off-list
>>> conversations about this, and thought that it may be
>> valuable to fully
>>> flesh-out what I think the issues are and how to avoid them. Now's
>> also
>>> probably a good time to share my "trick" regarding publicly
>> available
>>> DNS
>>> and minimizing service exposure. So, for the benefit of
>> those who are
>>> interested:
>>> 
>>> When AD DNS is configured as a forwarder, all domain members using
>> that
>>> DNS
>>> server will be able to resolve hostnames directly from
>> their IP stack.
>>> There is no operational reason to have this-- when one
>> considers that
>>> most
>>> spyware/malware/trojans/backdoors/shells/etc typically depend on
>>> hostname lookups for direct access to a resource, the capability of
>>> a client
>> box
>>> to
>>> perform direct host lookups outside your network should (to me) be
>>> considered unwanted and un-needed. Personally, I qualify it as
>>> "dangerous."
>>> 
>>> That's why I always configure my AD DNS with a root (.) zone- that
>> way,
>>> only
>>> local zones may be queried by the client's stack. I typically only
>> use
>>> web
>>> proxy clients for HTTP(S)/FTP where all DNS is proxied by
>> the ISA box.
>>> If
>>> one needs direct DNS for another application (say DOS FTP) then use
>> the
>>> FWC
>>> and all DNS will be resolved over the control channel, still being
>>> proxied by the ISA server.
>>> 
>>> The ISA server itself will have whatever "public" DNS server
>> configured
>>> in
>>> its stack so that it can do the resolution for the clients.
>>> 
>>> Not only is direct client DNS "dangerous," but having an AD
>> box set up
>>> as a
>>> forwarder is "dangerous" as well as the box must be configured to
>> access
>>> a
>>> remote resource over TCP/UDP 53. This also means that you've opened
>>> that box up for incoming traffic on TCP/UDP 53 as well. Having
>>> static
>> paths
>>> into
>>> your internal network from source port routing is crazy. I can push
>>> anything I want over 53, not just DNS (and have ;).
>> Remember, the DNS
>>> filter is only for published DNS servers, not clients requesting DNS
>>> lookups.
>>> 
>>> But there is the issue of one wanting complete control over
>> host names
>>> and
>>> the need to publish your own DNS. This is what the DMZ is for. The
>> DMZ
>>> box
>>> is set as a forwarding server, and the internal ISA box is
>> set to use
>>> that
>>> box for all DNS requests. In this way, only the ISA box itself need
>> to
>>> request DNS outside the internal network, and it is already
>> protected.
>>> In
>>> this manner, there is no DNS leaving the internal network
>> at all, and
>> no
>>> static ports into the internal network-- only the ISA box looking up
>>> DNS, and only to that DMZ resource. The DNS server in the DMZ
>> is protected
>>> by
>>> the border ISA box, which (where necessary) is publishing DNS to the
>> DMZ
>>> for
>>> remote hosts to look up your domain information. And here the DNS
>>> filter is used.
>>> 
>>> But you can get even better than that-- you can actually be fully in
>>> control of your own zone data without having to actually publish
>>> your DNS to
>> the
>>> world if you have a decent ISP.
>>> 
>>> Here's what I do for that-- I have DMZ DNS servers set up as primary
>> DNS
>>> zones, and have told my ISP to set up their servers as
>> secondary zones
>>> for
>>> my domains. The DMZ box can only zone transfer to the IP's of my
>> ISP's
>>> DNS
>>> servers. Additionally the DMZ box is set to forward to my
>> ISP's cache
>>> servers. So, at this point, all internal AD DNS is stopped at the
>>> controller, and only the ISA box can resolve DNS and only to the DMZ
>> DNS
>>> server. My internal Exchange clusters' stack resolves to the AD
>>> controller, and they smart host deliver mail to my DMZ GFI gateway,
>>> so still no
>> DNS
>>> leaving. The GFI box in the DMZ uses the DMZ DNS.
>>> 
>>> The trick is that though I'm primary DNS, and though any changes I
>> make
>>> to
>>> my DNS hosts are immediately replicated to my ISP as secondary DNS,
>> I've
>>> registered my DNS with the domain registry as my *ISP*
>> being primary.
>>> So
>>> the world resolves my host names via my *ISP's* DNS servers, not
>> *mine*.
>>> I
>>> don't even have to publish DNS at all.
>>> 
>>> The end result is that no DNS requests leave my internal network at
>> all,
>>> except for a single DNS box in the DMZ that can only resolve to the
>> ISP
>>> DNS
>>> caches. There is no publishing at all, no internal paths, no vulns,
>>> nothing at all since the world resolves to the ISP boxes yet I have
>>> full
>> control
>>> over all host name entries.
>>> 
>>> It's a pretty tight config.
>>> 
>>> t
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/18/06 11:01 AM, "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> spoketh
>>> to
>>> all:
>>> 
>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> The T-Man is definitely right about this.
>>>> 
>>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
>>>> Site: www.isaserver.org
>>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
>>>> MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of
>>>>> God)
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 PM
>>>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why do your internal clients need to resolve DNS directly? I
>>>>> never ever use forwarders on my AD boxes. I always create root
>>>>> zones on my AD DNS servers and only use ISA to resolve DNS for web
>>>>> proxy/fw clients.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That's where what I consider "true" security and separation comes
>>>>> from.
>>>>> 
>>>>> t
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/18/06 9:13 AM, "ISA" <ISA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This actually has happened with and without forwarders -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve, I interpret your suggestion as using only the Root Hints?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Network Blade Inc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 49 Marcy Street
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Somerset, NJ 08873
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 732-213-0600
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.networkblade.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
>>>>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:08 PM Posted To: ISA
>>>>>> Conversation: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> FWIW.....I have 2 caching only DNS Servers that I setup to use as
>>>>>> forwarders for my AD DNS Servers, when I use them, I get
>>>>> the very same
>>>>>> issue. If I however, remove them from the forwarders
>>>>> section, I have no
>>>>>> DNS Issues at all whatsoever, anytime.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of ISA
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:03 PM
>>>>>> To: ISA Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks Mike:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I will try clearing the cache - but this happens now
>> about everyday
>>>>>> (morning usually). I really have to find the source of
>> the problem.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Network Blade Inc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 49 Marcy Street
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Somerset, NJ 08873
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 732-213-0600
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.networkblade.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Michael Ross
>>>>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:01 PM Posted To: ISA
>>>>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Windows 2003 DNS servers?
>>>>>> Believe it or not, ive seen that . It's a cache pollution type of
>>>>>> behavior, with no logging or other signs to prove that.
>>>>>> Try to clear the DNS cache next time and see if it helps.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of ISA
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:59 AM
>>>>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve: Funny you should say that because I've done that a few
>> times.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> DNS stops - I removed the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works.
>>>>>> DNS stops - I change the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I want to blame my server but I'm just not sure where the
>>>>> failure is.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Network Blade Inc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 49 Marcy Street
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Somerset, NJ 08873
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 732-213-0600
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.networkblade.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
>>>>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:55 AM Posted To: ISA
>>>>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Remove the forwarders.....then see how fast your Internet speed
>>>>>> gets...:)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> S
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of ISA
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:49 PM
>>>>>> To: ISA Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello All -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This might be off-topic, but has anyone every had their
>>>>> Windows DNS/DC
>>>>>> server intermittently stop forwarding DNS requests?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I checked with the ISP and they don't recognize and
>>>>> problems on their
>>>>>> end.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> JD
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>>>>>> 
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