http://www.ISAserver.org ------------------------------------------------------- See; now you've scared Steve... ..that or ceiling cat is watching him... -----Original Message----- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Moffat Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:38 PM To: ISA Mailing List Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders http://www.ISAserver.org ------------------------------------------------------- Ahh hah hah hah....... -----Original Message----- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God) Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:31 PM To: ISA Mailing List Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders http://www.ISAserver.org ------------------------------------------------------- I'm hearing through the vine... Wish I was there to help out... You want I should kick someone's ass for you? I will, you know.. t On 10/19/06 6:24 PM, "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all: > http://www.ISAserver.org > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ..you have no idea... > :-( > > -----Original Message----- > From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God) > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:12 PM > To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > > http://www.ISAserver.org > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Don't worry about him... Jim's just roughing you up a bit... He's had > a hard day. > > t > > > On 10/19/06 3:43 PM, "Amy Babinchak" <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > spoketh to all: > >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Fortunately my client list contains 0 P2P networks so it was >> rhetorical question anyway. I have never seen an P2P network with an >> internal DNS server so I'm wondering if this is common practice these >> days among that that do P2P? >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Jim Harrison >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:32 PM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Users don't care because they just "want you to make it work". >> How you go about that within the framework of the current contract is >> your business. >> >> If you're happy building P2P networks that depend on NB broadcast for >> internal connectivity, that's up to you since you have to support >> them, but I strongly encourage you to rethink this position. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:33 PM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I do often fear them because I only have so much time in my life to >> learn new stuff. At least what I learn about one Microsoft app is >> somewhat transferable to others. >> >> So what's the advantage of running DNS on an XP workstation on a >> peer-peer network? I don't think the users are going to care and >> it'll > >> just be one more machine they have to keep running to keep the >> network > >> going. Just like the "print server" workstation. >> >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Jim Harrison >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:23 PM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> If there is a network, then there is at least one machine. >> If they have one single machine, they can have a DNS server. >> XP can run DNS services unless you're afraid of a non-MS solution. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:15 PM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> From his description I was assuming no server. He mentioned very >> small > >> businesses. >> >> Amy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Jim Harrison >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:49 PM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Sez hoo? >> If you have a single machine, you have the possibility of operating >> your own DNS service. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:47 PM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Joseph, >> >> Are you saying that you need DNS functionality on a network without a >> firewall? In that case you have no choice but the use the DNS server >> provided by the ISP. You also have larger security concerns than DNS. >> >> If what you are saying is you have a non-ISA non-SBS environment with >> a firewall appliance you can usually use this appliance as the DNS >> server for your workstations provided you buy one in the $200+ range. >> If you go with the $50 model, when then you're in the same spot as > paragraph 1. >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of ISA >> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:54 AM >> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Thor - a most excellent passage of DNS and network security. >> >> Unfortunately, I usually run into the typical client (as was this >> case) that only has one server, one gateway (pikes, conicwell etc) >> and > >> a few clients. >> >> ISA, DMZ and hosting of anything themselves is out of the question >> (except that which is offered by SBS 2003). >> >> >> The fundamental question is how to best configure the network to >> allow > >> the clients and server to resolve internet names (where ISA/DMZ are >> not present). I would assume that your clients are pointing to the >> DC/DNS server!?! From there, there are a few options: Configure DNS >> server to forward / not forward, configure it's NIC with for the ISP >> DNS server IP etc. >> >> Actually I suppose this question/scenario might not be best addressed >> from this list; since this list is dedicated to ISA which is an >> enterprise product not represented well in the SMALL small business >> market. >> >> Thanks again for the DNS brief - that'll be another one that I'll >> archive for my records. >> >> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP >> >> Network Blade Inc. >> >> 49 Marcy Street >> >> Somerset, NJ 08873 >> >> 732-213-0600 >> >> www.networkblade.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God) >> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:50 PM Posted To: ISA >> Conversation: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >> >> http://www.ISAserver.org >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I've found that many people seem to dance over the security >> ramifications of DNS/forwarders when designing an infrastructure. I >> had some off-list conversations about this, and thought that it may >> be > >> valuable to fully flesh-out what I think the issues are and how to >> avoid them. Now's also probably a good time to share my "trick" >> regarding publicly available DNS and minimizing service exposure. >> So, > >> for the benefit of those who are >> interested: >> >> When AD DNS is configured as a forwarder, all domain members using >> that DNS server will be able to resolve hostnames directly from their >> IP stack. >> There is no operational reason to have this-- when one considers that >> most spyware/malware/trojans/backdoors/shells/etc typically depend on >> hostname lookups for direct access to a resource, the capability of a >> client box to perform direct host lookups outside your network should >> (to me) be considered unwanted and un-needed. Personally, I qualify >> it as "dangerous." >> >> That's why I always configure my AD DNS with a root (.) zone- that >> way, only local zones may be queried by the client's stack. I >> typically only use web proxy clients for HTTP(S)/FTP where all DNS is >> proxied by the ISA box. >> If >> one needs direct DNS for another application (say DOS FTP) then use >> the FWC and all DNS will be resolved over the control channel, still >> being proxied by the ISA server. >> >> The ISA server itself will have whatever "public" DNS server >> configured in its stack so that it can do the resolution for the > clients. >> >> Not only is direct client DNS "dangerous," but having an AD box set >> up > >> as a forwarder is "dangerous" as well as the box must be configured >> to > >> access a remote resource over TCP/UDP 53. This also means that >> you've > >> opened that box up for incoming traffic on TCP/UDP 53 as well. >> Having > >> static paths into your internal network from source port routing is >> crazy. I can push anything I want over 53, not just DNS (and have ;). >> Remember, the DNS filter is only for published DNS servers, not >> clients requesting DNS lookups. >> >> But there is the issue of one wanting complete control over host >> names > >> and the need to publish your own DNS. This is what the DMZ is for. >> The DMZ box is set as a forwarding server, and the internal ISA box >> is > >> set to use that box for all DNS requests. In this way, only the ISA >> box itself need to request DNS outside the internal network, and it >> is > >> already protected. >> In >> this manner, there is no DNS leaving the internal network at all, and >> no static ports into the internal network-- only the ISA box looking >> up DNS, and only to that DMZ resource. The DNS server in the DMZ is >> protected by the border ISA box, which (where necessary) is >> publishing > >> DNS to the DMZ for remote hosts to look up your domain information. >> And here the DNS filter is used. >> >> But you can get even better than that-- you can actually be fully in >> control of your own zone data without having to actually publish your >> DNS to the world if you have a decent ISP. >> >> Here's what I do for that-- I have DMZ DNS servers set up as primary >> DNS zones, and have told my ISP to set up their servers as secondary >> zones for my domains. The DMZ box can only zone transfer to the IP's >> of my ISP's DNS servers. Additionally the DMZ box is set to forward >> to my ISP's cache servers. So, at this point, all internal AD DNS is >> stopped at the controller, and only the ISA box can resolve DNS and >> only to the DMZ DNS server. My internal Exchange clusters' stack >> resolves to the AD controller, and they smart host deliver mail to my >> DMZ GFI gateway, so still no DNS leaving. The GFI box in the DMZ >> uses > the DMZ DNS. >> >> The trick is that though I'm primary DNS, and though any changes I >> make to my DNS hosts are immediately replicated to my ISP as >> secondary > >> DNS, I've registered my DNS with the domain registry as my *ISP* >> being > >> primary. >> So >> the world resolves my host names via my *ISP's* DNS servers, not > *mine*. >> I >> don't even have to publish DNS at all. >> >> The end result is that no DNS requests leave my internal network at >> all, except for a single DNS box in the DMZ that can only resolve to >> the ISP DNS caches. There is no publishing at all, no internal >> paths, > >> no vulns, nothing at all since the world resolves to the ISP boxes >> yet > >> I have full control over all host name entries. >> >> It's a pretty tight config. >> >> t >> >> >> >> On 10/18/06 11:01 AM, "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> spoketh to >> all: >> >>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> The T-Man is definitely right about this. >>> >>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D. >>> Site: www.isaserver.org >>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ >>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 >>> MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA) >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of >>>> God) >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 PM >>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Why do your internal clients need to resolve DNS directly? I never >>>> ever use forwarders on my AD boxes. I always create root zones on >>>> my >> >>>> AD DNS servers and only use ISA to resolve DNS for web proxy/fw >>>> clients. >>>> >>>> That's where what I consider "true" security and separation comes >>>> from. >>>> >>>> t >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/18/06 9:13 AM, "ISA" <ISA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all: >>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This actually has happened with and without forwarders - >>>>> >>>>> Steve, I interpret your suggestion as using only the Root Hints? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP >>>>> >>>>> Network Blade Inc. >>>>> >>>>> 49 Marcy Street >>>>> >>>>> Somerset, NJ 08873 >>>>> >>>>> 732-213-0600 >>>>> >>>>> www.networkblade.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat >>>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:08 PM Posted To: ISA >>>>> Conversation: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> FWIW.....I have 2 caching only DNS Servers that I setup to use as >>>>> forwarders for my AD DNS Servers, when I use them, I get >>>> the very same >>>>> issue. If I however, remove them from the forwarders >>>> section, I have no >>>>> DNS Issues at all whatsoever, anytime. >>>>> >>>>> S >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> On Behalf Of ISA >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:03 PM >>>>> To: ISA Mailing List >>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Mike: >>>>> >>>>> I will try clearing the cache - but this happens now about >>>>> everyday > >>>>> (morning usually). I really have to find the source of the problem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP >>>>> >>>>> Network Blade Inc. >>>>> >>>>> 49 Marcy Street >>>>> >>>>> Somerset, NJ 08873 >>>>> >>>>> 732-213-0600 >>>>> >>>>> www.networkblade.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> On Behalf Of Michael Ross >>>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:01 PM Posted To: ISA >>>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Windows 2003 DNS servers? >>>>> Believe it or not, ive seen that . It's a cache pollution type of >>>>> behavior, with no logging or other signs to prove that. >>>>> Try to clear the DNS cache next time and see if it helps. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> On Behalf Of ISA >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:59 AM >>>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Steve: Funny you should say that because I've done that a few > times. >>>>> >>>>> DNS stops - I removed the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works. >>>>> DNS stops - I change the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works. >>>>> >>>>> I want to blame my server but I'm just not sure where the >>>> failure is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP >>>>> >>>>> Network Blade Inc. >>>>> >>>>> 49 Marcy Street >>>>> >>>>> Somerset, NJ 08873 >>>>> >>>>> 732-213-0600 >>>>> >>>>> www.networkblade.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat >>>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:55 AM Posted To: ISA >>>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Remove the forwarders.....then see how fast your Internet speed >>>>> gets...:) >>>>> >>>>> S >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> On Behalf Of ISA >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:49 PM >>>>> To: ISA Mailing List >>>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ISAserver.org >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Hello All - >>>>> >>>>> This might be off-topic, but has anyone every had their >>>> Windows DNS/DC >>>>> server intermittently stop forwarding DNS requests? >>>>> >>>>> I checked with the ISP and they don't recognize and >>>> problems on their >>>>> end. >>>>> >>>>> JD >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/isalist/ >>>>> ISA Server Newsletter: >>>>> http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp >>>>> ISA Server Articles and Tutorials: >>>>> http://www.isaserver.org/articles_tutorials/ >>>>> ISA Server Blogs: http://blogs.isaserver.org/ >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: >>>>> http://www.techgenix.com >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> To unsubscribe visit http://www.isaserver.org/pages/isalist.asp >>>>> Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> >>>>> 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our other sites: >> http://www.techgenix.com >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe visit http://www.isaserver.org/pages/isalist.asp >> Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> >> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/isalist/ >> ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp >> ISA Server Articles and Tutorials: >> http://www.isaserver.org/articles_tutorials/ >> ISA Server Blogs: http://blogs.isaserver.org/ >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: >> http://www.techgenix.com >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe visit http://www.isaserver.org/pages/isalist.asp >> Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> List Archives: 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