> to figure that one out)l. But seriously, I would be interesting to know > how long it would take to crack a key that was more than 8 characters, > that had both upper and lower case letters, numbers and symbols in it, > that didn't use the @ for the letter A :-) I think that is the point. You would be surprised at some of the preshared secrets in use: 12345678 87654321 password secret (companyname) etc. Their ultimate recommendation for risk mitigation would be in using a preshared secret of more than 8 characters, upper and lower case, number and letters and symbols. John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA Engineer/Consultant eServices For You www.eservicesforyou.com